Proper "Mix" of Pitches?

DD is just moving up to be a 16U pitcher; one of her good friends is a year-older catcher who will be on the same showcase team this year. Having a friendly debate with the kid about how many changeups to call. As an aside it drove me nuts this season with our catchers (not my daughter's friend, who was in an older age group this season) that they never called offspeed despite the fact DD has a very good one - we played a game in northern NAFA, for example, where she threw 71 fastballs and not a single changeup. One team beat us twice on the same day; their pitchers threw probably two changeups per AB.

My DD's friend says "I can tell when it's time to call a changeup - when the batter hits a really good foul ball!" IMO that's too late. I know it depends on a lot of factors, but what's an approximate percentage of pitches to be offspeed (at our 14U level most pitchers have a fastball and a change; a few have a third pitch (normally a riseball)? DD throws two fastballs and a change and is picking up her riseball.

My DD is only 12U and I'm not nearly an expert but just from my personal observations, it seems to me it will depend on the pitcher. I've noticed when DD guest plays, her pitching is almost always less effective than with on her own team. Her own coaches know her strengths. She's really good at off-speed stuff and has really good movement. Pick up with a team that's not used to that and she gets hit more in large part because of the pitch selection. We've had other pitchers who just really struggled with off speed pitches, so if they got called a lot it wouldn't be very effective.

My DD's friend says "I can tell when it's time to call a changeup - when the batter hits a really good foul ball!

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That is not correct.

If a batter hits a foul ball that goes straight back to the backstop, then usually the pitcher needs to throw an off speed. Hard foul balls to the left or right are simply strikes.

I know it depends on a lot of factors, but what's an approximate percentage of pitches to be offspeed (at our 14U level most pitchers have a fastball and a change; a few have a third pitch (normally a riseball)?

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Your DD's ultimate goal is to be a good collegiate pitcher, not to be a good 14U or 16U pitcher.

In order to be a good collegiate pitcher, she has to be able to throw her pitches well at any time during the game, including in the 7th inning with the bases loaded and the score tied.

A pitcher has to throw her pitches early in the game to show that she has them. And, she has to keep throwing them during the game. If she doesn't, she might as well not even have the pitch.

So, she needs to throw all of her pitches throughout the game. She probably should throw at least two changeups an inning, probably more like 3 or 4.

If she has a good change, she should throw it in the first 3 or 4 pitches of the game.

She wants every batter on the other team to know she has a changeup, and that she will throw it at any time. This keeps the batters from teeing off on the pitch.

A catcher and pitcher work as a team. Your DD is *NOT* a robot who just does what she is told. She should be actively, mentally involved with the pitches.

Ultimately, your DD has to stand up to the catcher and the coaches and say, "I want to throw the changeup a lot."

Can't help you with the 16U stuff except by anecdotal evidence, and I haven't seen too many teams where the catcher is calling the pitches without assistance from the bench. Having said all that, it just depends on what your P does best and what works against your opponent. On our team, DD threw about 1/2 changeups, with a few drop balls, and the rest were fastballs last time out. But she has a very good changeup, and her fastball is not as fast as most pitchers at 12U. The other pitchers threw mostly fastballs, with maybe 10% changeups, but they have good fastballs and their offspeed pitches aren't as developed. The other pitchers threw against teams where the coach thought they could dominate with the fastball, where DD pitched against the teams that we know can hit a fastball.

sluggers said:

That is not correct.

If a batter hits a foul ball that goes straight back to the backstop, then usually the pitcher needs to throw an off speed. Hard foul balls to the left or right are simply strikes.



Your DD's ultimate goal is to be a good collegiate pitcher, not to be a good 14U or 16U pitcher.

In order to be a good collegiate pitcher, she has to be able to throw her pitches well at any time during the game, including in the 7th inning with the bases loaded and the score tied.

A pitcher has to throw her pitches early in the game to show that she has them. And, she has to keep throwing them during the game. If she doesn't, she might as well not even have the pitch.

So, she needs to throw all of her pitches throughout the game. She probably should throw at least two changeups an inning, probably more like 3 or 4.

If she has a good change, she should throw it in the first 3 or 4 pitches of the game.

She wants every batter on the other team to know she has a changeup, and that she will throw it at any time. This keeps the batters from teeing off on the pitch.

A catcher and pitcher work as a team. Your DD is *NOT* a robot who just does what she is told. She should be actively, mentally involved with the pitches.

Ultimately, your DD has to stand up to the catcher and the coaches and say, "I want to throw the changeup a lot."

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Well said sluggers... My dd is 16 u and if she has all her pitches working rise/drop/Change/off speed/ the batters never know whats coming. It's a guessing game at that point. One she usually wins

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matt said:

Well said sluggers... My dd is 16 u and if she has all her pitches working rise/drop/Change/off speed/ the batters never know whats coming. It's a guessing game at that point. One she usually wins

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Then the player runs into a coach who eliminates all but her "fastball," telling her you can only throw those other pitches when we are kicking butt.

It amazes me how incredibly predictable pitch callers (coach, catcher and/or pitcher) are at the 16U and up level (including high level P5 college) with using the change up. I'll bet 90+% of the time a change up is coming if a hitter fouls one hard and straight back. If they throw a good change-up by someone the next pitch is not going to be change up 90+% of the time. DD has learned to look for change-up after fouling straight back and to sit on something with speed if she takes a change or fouls one off, she's sometimes wrong of course, but usually the trend holds. Back to back change-ups are devastating if pitcher has command of them. I remember when Schilling was doing the WCWS a few years ago and kept questioning pitch calling because of this. I think that what makes a catcher or pitch calling coach with good skills great is being able to watch a batter and set them up, not just go pitch by pitch based on what the last one was. I would suggest that there is no right amount of change-ups, it just depends on the opposition, at bat situations and game situations.

I like what Sluggers said about throwing the change-up early and often and get the effectiveness of that. However, I would make a case for the opposite as a potential game plan as well. If a pitcher can get through the first couple innings without using a change-up just as effectively as with, don't show it until you really need it (especially if it's against team who doesn't know your pitcher) and then make the other team adjust as they come through order a second time. Being able to process and execute the mental game within the game is a huge point of differentiation between the good and great players IMHO.

A bit off topic, but it is odd to me how many teams put their starter out to warm up in front of the dugout and she runs through all of her pitches so everyone can see what she has.

matt said:

Well said sluggers... My dd is 16 u and if she has all her pitches working rise/drop/Change/off speed/ the batters never know whats coming. It's a guessing game at that point. One she usually wins

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Agree...well said Matt AND sluggers... My DD is just moving up to 14u this fall. My philosophy for her and our pitchers is ANY PITCH AT ANYTIME. And if the P is on it can be such an advantage. We started a game off with a CU Swinging strike....other coach "now you've seen it...look for the other pitches"....next pitch CU....looks at second strike....other coach "they won't throw that three times"....ME (Thanks coach). Yup CU.... strike three looking. You can guess how the rest of the game went....

Hitting is timing....Pitching and pitch calling is to disrupt that timing...

We want/strive for our pitchers to throw any pitch we need under any situation. It also builds a stronger mentally tough pitcher as well.

I like the change early and often when its on . But I think it needs to be thrown even if it's not on just to give the batter something to think about.
It kills me to see a pitcher getting hit hard by several batters in a row continue to throw just fastballs .