Pitching faster

Djubs · Sep 6, 2018

Cornbread said:
Do you perform long toss in regular pitching motion, relaxed long toss motion (one step), or walk-throughs?

We do an aggressive 3-4 step into it with each step being more aggressive (Was that redundant?). I think one thing that makes this drill so great is it really helps the pitcher understand resistance. If they are getting an aggressive last step into that pitch, the energy can then be transferred to the ball with good front side resistance. So when we do these long tosses we focus on getting an explosive push and finish with good front side resistance. If its a relaxed walk through there wont be much energy to resist.

I would strongly recommend visiting the link that was posted in #52. There's a good bit of info on that site that I found was well worth the read. One thing I found interesting was in the link they describe throwing with a rise ball grip and spin. We will start doing this as well to see if we have any additional success.

STRIKE3 · Sep 6, 2018

I guage distance/speed with regular motion but the workout is with walk-throughs primarily and sometimes run throughs. I want her to feel everything she has on the pitch and use it alll. My goal with this is to tear muscle (small tears of of course) and then repair stronger. Just started DD2 on this (12 U) this week as well and they both love the challenge! I have never taught a fastball to either of my girls and probably a mistake. First pitch taught was always a drop, then change, then rise. My older DD throws a rise on this drill and gets it completely. My 12U hasn't been taught a rise yet and therefore struggles with getting the height needed to make this work. Gonna teach her a rise next week in an effort to get the ball up for this drill. Never to early to learn IMO. Will struggle with it for awhile but getting the motion down early will pay down the road.

I would encourage others to do walk-thru/run thru on this drill and let it rip! IMO, this drill is about going further than you have ever gone. Think about lifting weights and performing a bench press or squat for max. You will never lift more if you don't push it to the limit and try!!! GO ALL OUT!!! Hope it helps!

S3

Djubs · Sep 6, 2018

STRIKE3 said:
I guage distance/speed with regular motion but the workout is with walk-throughs primarily and sometimes run throughs. I want her to feel everything she has on the pitch and use it alll. My goal with this is to tear muscle (small tears of of course) and then repair stronger. Just started DD2 on this (12 U) this week as well and they both love the challenge! I have never taught a fastball to either of my girls and probably a mistake. First pitch taught was always a drop, then change, then rise. My older DD throws a rise on this drill and gets it completely. My 12U hasn't been taught a rise yet and therefore struggles with getting the height needed to make this work. Gonna teach her a rise next week in an effort to get the ball up for this drill. Never to early to learn IMO. Will struggle with it for awhile but getting the motion down early will pay down the road.

I would encourage others to do walk-thru/run thru on this drill and let it rip! IMO, this drill is about going further than you have ever gone. Think about lifting weights and performing a bench press or squat for max. You will never lift more if you don't push it to the limit and try!!! GO ALL OUT!!! Hope it helps!

S3

Are you saying like literally running while pitching? I’m having a hard time picturing that.

You mentioned your DD #2 is struggling to get the ball high enough for this drill to work....how are you determining how high the pitch needs to be? And would the difference in a riseball and fastball make up the difference in height you are talking about? With my DD if she gets it to me without bouncing then we call that a success and proceed to the next distance. If she cant reach me we start working back in.

Also, my DD has been doing this drill for about a year now and has seen some decent speed increases. We never used a riseball grip or spin. Using a fastball grip and spin will still produce results. Don’t have to go teach a riseball just for this drill. My DD does throw a riseball and we will start throwing that for long tosses for the reasons listed in the article.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

spleen1015 · Sep 7, 2018

BT3100 said:
Everything above^
I was telling DDs PC that until DD hits 65 we are gonna skip camps and the cost associated with them.
She said schools like to see progress..
I think they don't care (D1) unless you are 6'2" or throw 65.

I don't know if my DD's situation is the norm but based on that, I wouldn't 100% skip camps. Just a little bit of history with my DD.

In January of 7th grade, she went to one of those cattle call camps for $50. She met the pitching coach of a mid major program there. He asked her to come to their camps. So, the next summer she did and fell in love with the coaches. She has gone to every camp they've had since. They have seen her grow and the things they say to her have changed as she has grown and gotten better. I don't believe that time and money has been a waste.

STRIKE3 · Sep 7, 2018

Djubs said:
Are you saying like literally running while pitching? I’m having a hard time picturing that.

You mentioned your DD #2 is struggling to get the ball high enough for this drill to work....how are you determining how high the pitch needs to be? And would the difference in a riseball and fastball make up the difference in height you are talking about? With my DD if she gets it to me without bouncing then we call that a success and proceed to the next distance. If she cant reach me we start working back in.

Also, my DD has been doing this drill for about a year now and has seen some decent speed increases. We never used a riseball grip or spin. Using a fastball grip and spin will still produce results. Don’t have to go teach a riseball just for this drill. My DD does throw a riseball and we will start throwing that for long tosses for the reasons listed in the article.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will try my best to answer your questions:

Run-through - not sure how to describe this any better than the actual name describes it. It is a walk-thru but faster.

You may want to revisit the drive mechanics thread. https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/18135-drive-mechanics-13.html and look at post #125 by Java where he mentions it. Whatever you can do to get your momentum going to go all out will work and work well IMO.

In regards to height, we aim to throw over the backstop and then some.

A typical IR Fastball for this drill will work just fine IMO. However, as previously stated, DD2 throws a drop ball for her fastball and a dropball is not an ideal pitch for this drill. Thus one reason we will go to a riseball. 2nd reason is it an opportunity to go ahead and learn the pitch.

Hope that helps!

S3

Hillhouse · Sep 7, 2018

BT3100 said:
Everything above^
I was telling DDs PC that until DD hits 65 we are gonna skip camps and the cost associated with them.
She said schools like to see progress..
I think they don't care (D1) unless you are 6'2" or throw 65.

I can tell you this will NOT be the case with me. I can point to countless pitchers, male and female that were not 6'2 yet made careers that are still talked about to this day: Lisa Fernandez, Ty Stofflet to name one of each. There are a lot of things to consider when a coach is "looking at" or recruiting a pitcher. Yes, it'd be helpful if all were Cat Osterman's size and had her hand size. But there are some world class pitchers much shorter, Ueno? The US Navy Seals trainers have a steadfast rule of thumb: anyone can be physically strong or taught to become physically strong. They look for those that are MENTALLY strong, which is something damn near impossible to teach.

Bill

MNDad · Sep 7, 2018

The thread about more data analysis has a link to a chart showing Gourley (5’4”) and O’Toole (5’8”) both throwing fastballs around 62 & 63 mph. From what I’ve seen that’s actually about the average D1 speed. Both are so successful because of how they move the ball and hit their spots. This is just my opinion, but it seems 60 is the magic number because when it gets much slower D1 hitters have no problem adjusting to it.

I’m a Dad of a flamethrower who took a LOT of lumps because she didn’t get much movement and couldn’t hit spots. Spin it to win it!

Djubs · Sep 7, 2018

"It is a walk-thru but faster. You may want to revisit the drive mechanics thread. https://www.discussfastpitch.com/sof...hanics-13.html and look at post #125 by Java where he mentions it."

He doesn't really explain it in that post, just states "then Run-Throughs. You don't need a link for that one... figure it out" I'm going to assume this is what I described as an "aggressive walk up" because the only other thing I can imagine is a pitcher running full speed and then pitching (I would worry about injuries if this is the intended method). I searched for run through pitching drills on google and only walk through drills came up. So doesn't appear to be a popular term.

"In regards to height, we aim to throw over the backstop and then some."
Understood, we sorta do the same except I am the backstop haha. I just have her try to throw it over me and when she succeeds I just turn around and grab it. Throwing it over the backstop would mean I have to go search for softballs at the end of practice.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm excited to see if DD's riseball gets more effective using that grip and spin during the long toss drills. I'm expecting it will, not sure why I haven't thought of this.

STRIKE3 · Sep 7, 2018

Djubs said:
I'm going to assume this is what I described as an "aggressive walk up"

I think aggressive walk thru is a good explanation and what Java was likely eluding to. Good luck with it and hope to hear how things go!

shaker1 · Sep 7, 2018

Djubs said:
"It is a walk-thru but faster. You may want to revisit the drive mechanics thread. https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/sof...hanics-13.html and look at post #125 by Java where he mentions it."

He doesn't really explain it in that post, just states "then Run-Throughs. You don't need a link for that one... figure it out" I'm going to assume this is what I described as an "aggressive walk up" because the only other thing I can imagine is a pitcher running full speed and then pitching (I would worry about injuries if this is the intended method). I searched for run through pitching drills on google and only walk through drills came up. So doesn't appear to be a popular term.

"In regards to height, we aim to throw over the backstop and then some."
Understood, we sorta do the same except I am the backstop haha. I just have her try to throw it over me and when she succeeds I just turn around and grab it. Throwing it over the backstop would mean I have to go search for softballs at the end of practice.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm excited to see if DD's riseball gets more effective using that grip and spin during the long toss drills. I'm expecting it will, not sure why I haven't thought of this.

Link to a walk through,
https://youtu.be/L4RtlRIPdkM
Long toss,
https://youtu.be/UQHnKRQ9s0I

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