The curve ball and the outside corner

In an elimination game at B State this weekend, we faced a strong hitting team. We have two really excellent pitchers (1st year 12U). One throws a curve, and one a drop curve, as their main movement pitch. They've both got great location and when they're on with it, it comes across the front outside corner. In this game the umpire had no outside corner. HC kept looking over at me for all the called balls (I was sitting behind home) and trying to figure out where they were missing. Only they weren't missing, the umpire just wouldn't give them the calls.

They (we used them both that game trying in vain to get out of it) had to bring it in and of course then the batters were getting hits. We'd have lost anyway, we didn't get a run in the whole game. But it got me thinking in this situation where you have an umpire who just won't call the edge of the plate, do you have any advice for a curve ball pitcher?

The only thing I can say is try the inside corner. Try backdooring the CB on the inside corner. The other option is to trying to set up the batters more and get more swing and misses. Use CB as a set up pitch for the FB or CU. It is kind of like pitching in reverse. It can work special if the Umpire is calling breaking pitches.

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grcsftbll said:

In an elimination game at B State this weekend, we faced a strong hitting team. We have two really excellent pitchers (1st year 12U). One throws a curve, and one a drop curve, as their main movement pitch. They've both got great location and when they're on with it, it comes across the front outside corner. In this game the umpire had no outside corner. HC kept looking over at me for all the called balls (I was sitting behind home) and trying to figure out where they were missing. Only they weren't missing, the umpire just wouldn't give them the calls.

They (we used them both that game trying in vain to get out of it) had to bring it in and of course then the batters were getting hits. We'd have lost anyway, we didn't get a run in the whole game. But it got me thinking in this situation where you have an umpire who just won't call the edge of the plate, do you have any advice for a curve ball pitcher?

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You have to have a plan B. Here are some suggestions of some plan B's you can work with:

- Throw hard and inside for balls to force the batter off the plate so you can maybe work a little more on the plate when you throw your curve. A couple of ball in and under the hands they up back from and they will move (This is DD's go to plan to start if the outside corner is closed.)
- Work the other side of the plate.
- Throw more change ups.
- Have the catcher set up slighter further out or slightly further in depending on the umpire to give him a 'different' view. Slightly further out helps the catcher catch it 'mid mass'. Slightly further in if they set up outside before the pitch. Yes I know the umpire is supposed to call it based on crossing the plate, but if the catcher doesn't catch it like a strike, you are often not getting a call. Also in younger ages many catchers accidentally block the umpires view of the outside corner

I tell every pitcher headed to college that they must have a serviceable down ball (drop, peel drop, IR-FB) as it is the only pitch that you can leave on the plate and few if any will get hit hard. This is especially true with the SEC strike zone which does not include the front corners of the plate. Throw the down ball a full ball on the plate and hope your defense can make some plays.

riseball said:

I tell every pitcher headed to college that they must have a serviceable down ball (drop, peel drop, IR-FB) as it is the only pitch that you can leave on the plate and few if any will get hit hard. This is especially true with the SEC strike zone which does not include the front corners of the plate. Throw the down ball a full ball on the plate and hope your defense can make some plays.

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We need to get back to practicing our DD's drop. She's been so focused on the curve she's not thrown it much though it was her first movement pitch and she got pretty good at it. She told me this weekend she threw one and she saw it going too much down the middle and thought, oh no, that's going to be a big hit. The girl swung, the ball dropped, and she missed. She was so excited to actually see the movement, which was a lot harder in 10U.

marriard said:

- Have the catcher set up slighter further out or slightly further in depending on the umpire to give him a 'different' view. Slightly further out helps the catcher catch it 'mid mass'. Slightly further in if they set up outside before the pitch. Yes I know the umpire is supposed to call it based on crossing the plate, but if the catcher doesn't catch it like a strike, you are often not getting a call.

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Without video, this was my thought as well. If the catcher is setting up in the middle, moving the glove outside to catch it and then not framing it well, they may not get the strike.

#7sDad said:

Without video, this was my thought as well. If the catcher is setting up in the middle, moving the glove outside to catch it and then not framing it well, they may not get the strike.

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If you go to an umpire forum or visit an umpire room, calling strikes and balls is a big topic and there is a LOT of discussion on it.

Calling strikes is a lot like hitting with a 'yes, yes, yes...no" process... it is strike until it is a ball. Convince me you are a ball - my mindset is that I have to think about it, it is a strike. Strikes move the game along. If you give those corners early, then coaches tend to tell their players "you know he is calling it, swing the bat".

There is another more generous thought process which is the 'zone of least resistance' - that is a zone which will stop the most amount of complaining. I do not agree with the entirely of his line of thought, but it is a guideline I know a lot of umpires follow on close ball/strikes. Personally I think it put a lot more emphasis on the catcher's action than what is correct but it is worth knowing what a catcher can do to help get close strikes - you can read about it here: The Ten Unwritten Rules of Calling Balls and Strikes

Looking through it again, I agree with some of this , however I really don't agree with #9 - I don't give sympathy strikes or balls on 0-2 and 3-0 counts. If the pitcher is going to come into the zone on 0-2 I am going to reward them - and if you miss on 3-0 the girl is going to walk especially in games that are not decided (adjustments for level and totally uneven talent is necessary).

I may not follow this closely but I will also tell you that a solid, low movement catcher makes my job callings balls and strikes much easier. I have one coach in particular who makes his catchers move real late and way outside just as his wild and erratic non-locating fireball throwing pitcher starts into her motion. Great - nothing between me and the pitcher but open air. Not fun. Some others are so jittery and unpredictable that they move into your vision making it harder to call. I want to be as still as possible when calling a pitch - so having to move makes the call more difficult.

I know sometimes they'll widen the strike zone in certain situations. Unfortunately that happened to us with probably the smartest batter on our team. She's our lead off and has a great eye for balls and strikes. She had 2 strikes on her, I can't remember how many balls. We were down 2-0 and we had the bases loaded. She was pitched a very obvious ball, didn't swing, and he called strike 3 to end the game. That was a heart breaker. I'll have to see if I can pull out the video and post it. I get it, the game's about over, you want your break. I'm not being snarky; in certain situations if it's close and they don't swing, call it and be done with it, fine (if EVER there was a time to be aggressive at the plate that was it! No doubt). But come on! Our lead off was up with the bases loaded and we were only down 2 runs. That was not the time, IMO.

If they are calling the inside corner and not the outside they may be setting up behind the inside corner so they can see that but not the outside corner. Its amazing but they don't seem to realize that they are blowing the outside calls. You could try to have the catcher ask blue we are going to be throwing mostly on the outside can you set up on that side.

MattM said:

If they are calling the inside corner and not the outside they may be setting up behind the inside corner so they can see that but not the outside corner. Its amazing but they don't seem to realize that they are blowing the outside calls. You could try to have the catcher ask blue we are going to be throwing mostly on the outside can you set up on that side.

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No I can't (sorry).

Softball is umpires belt buckle lined up with the inside of the plate which gives a straight line to define where the inside pitch is - anything to batter side off my belt is a ball. I am then dropping into my stance where I am a few inches above the catchers helmet and will be able to get a good view of the outside/lower corner based on the players stance - in my case I use the gap in my mask to mark the top of the zone. So now I have inside of the plate and top of the zone (is this starting to sound like hitting yet?) and the outside/lower - and thus my zone.

From there I follow the ball path into the catchers mitt (nose follows ball)