Average pitchers, what is the problem?

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Jan 17, 2013
414
18
Texas
Recently I have been having a discussion with a couple of friends (both former TB coaches, ones a pitchers dad and ones a catchers dad) and my wife about a very common trend I see in softball. My DD has played on high level A teams and what I would refer to as low A teams as well. Though it is not near as common on the high A level I did see it some, and I see a lot of it in the low A level. What I am talking about is pitchers who throw a lot of strikes, throw very few balls, give up a lot of hits and have high ERAs. It is almost like they are afraid to not have the entire ball over the white of the plate no matter what pitch is called. I have been off the field and behind the fence now for the last year so I don't feel like it is my place to say anything concerning our pitchers who do this. Though my kid may give up more walks (even more than I would like), she is either pitching to the black on the plate or the umpires zone. She works to just nick the strike zone. She has the lowest ERA, lowest number of hits, the most Ks on her team. She moves the ball through the zone and tries to throw the ball so that it is moving on 2 plains.
My question is are the other pitchers not doing this because no one is explaining the importance of doing this and teaching them how to accomplish this, is it that they are not skilled enough in their pitching to do this, or are they just not physically able to spin a ball correctly to get the movement so that it no staying flat?
Now I know that a lot of pitcher's parents do not take the time to learn all they can about pitching, and I also know that 85% of the pitching coaches are only teaching the basics of how to throw a pitch but not getting into the full understanding of how to be a pitcher. Do most coaches, especially the ones who don't have a DD who is a pitcher not know to discuss these things with their pitchers, are they expecting the pitching coaches to be teaching this stuff? I am sure the answer is a combination of all of this but it just makes no since to me. If I am a coach and my pitchers are getting beat up every time they pitch, and their strike % is super high with a low number of strikeouts, I am going to be working with that pitcher to make sure they are only pitching to a small section of the plate every time.
I am sure there are some people who are going to read this and may realize that I am talking about their kid in a round about way. Maybe through what is discussed here and peoples responses it can help others improve their DD pitching success.
 
Aug 10, 2016
686
63
Georgia
DD is pretty much that - DD took a few pitching lessons her last season of 10U.
She is a pitcher who has a super high S% but does get hit off. She's not fast - can kind of throw a CU - but she's just very good at throwing strikes. Depending on the team, she can rack up a ton of strikeouts. Other teams hit the crap out of her.
She pitched a few games in 10U All-Stars (during the state tournament and WS) - gave up only 2 runs out of 3 games.
She has not taken any pitching lessons since and is technically in her second season of 12U but plays 14U.
She doesn't pitch much - she's primarily a C or SS. He put her in w/o warming up in a rec game because we were crushing the other team and he wanted the other team to be able to hit. Still managed 2 K's but they did get some hits off her.
Pitching is NOT her passion and I wouldn't call her a strong pitcher at all. I think if she actually wanted to, she'd do well but I don't think she has the focus for pitching ;)
I do think that it helps to have a starting point of being able to throw strikes however. I'd take that over speed. I'd rather them hit off her than having a ton of walks.
 
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
Not all pitchers are the same so there are many moving pieces to the puzzle. On a side note ERA is not the best statistic to measure a pitchers effectiveness.

I have found that for most pitchers accuracy takes away velocity. Those with high velocity tend to have less accuracy (which leads to walks and hit batters, etc.) If you have both velocity and accuracy you are a great pitcher probably in the top 10% of your age and none of this applies.

10% of pitchers are fast and accurate these are the best of the age groups;
20% are fast with enough accuracy/spin to be consistently good;
20% are accurate enough (with great spin) and have enough velocity to be consistently good;

The other 50% aren't fast enough or good enough with their accuracy to be consistent. They can still pitch good games combined with just as many bad games. If they are on a strong offensive or defensive team the can have some success depending on the opponent.

I think your post is too simple. In other words if someone would just explain or teach the bottom 50% how to pitch they could join the upper 50% and be consistently good....I just don't think that is true for many reasons.

Telling a pitcher she needs to get more accurate or faster isn't a simple thing. Individuals can do it with a lot of hard work and practice but that isn't going to happen in the middle of a season. I know coaches want to win so if they could fix/instruct their pitchers on how to be more effective they would do so.

Just my observations.
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
How many times have you been at the ball field and heard a coach or parent yell, "Just throw strikes!" To get innings in the circle they have to be able to throw strikes. I think in 10U most kids don't have much movement and so they really do just need to get the ball across the plate. Then you get to 12U when hopefully they're developing some good movement pitches and I think the coaches really just don't get it a lot of the time. There are a lot of coaches with very little knowledge on pitching, either mechanics or strategy. So they say, throw strikes. And the kids get it into their heads very young that that's the most important thing. Just a theory.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
My DD was a good D1 pitcher. I caught her 3 or 4 times a week, an hour a day, 40 weeks out of the year, from the time she was 12YOA until she graduated HS.

That is what it takes for a kid to be "good". No HS coach, TB coach or PC is going to do that. They don't have the time.


My question is are the other pitchers not doing this because no one is explaining the importance of doing this and teaching them how to accomplish this, is it that they are not skilled enough in their pitching to do this, or are they just not physically able to spin a ball correctly to get the movement so that it no staying flat?

Kids often don't have the skill to move the ball a few inches either left or right. E.g., you said your DD has too many walks. She has too many walks because she doesn't have enough skill (yet) to (a) determine the strike zone of the umpire and (b) move the ball location a few inches at the edge of the umpire's strike zone.

Most parents have *NO IDEA* of how much work it takes for a pitcher to be "good". "Good pitchers" have at least one bat **** crazy parent willing to spend hours in the backyard working on control.

Riseball told a story that I love...His DD was throwing at a large rope with a knot in it. She was hitting the knot every pitch. He said, "Wow, that is pretty impressive." His DD said, "Nah...I didn't do well. I was trying to make the rope 'kick to the left' when I hit it. I kept hitting the middle of the knot." That is the kind of control it takes to be "good".

You talk about "spinning the ball". Lots of kids know how to "spin the ball". Learning how to spin the ball is pretty simple. But, it is not enough. A pitcher has to throw the breaking pitches very close to the strike zone. In order to do that, it takes a lot of time.

No matter how much spin a pitcher puts on the ball, good hitters aren't going to chase it if the ball is not close to the strike zone.

A kid learn to throw a riseball that starts at the arm pits and then ends up a the chin. The kid will strike out 95% of the batters at 14U, 50% at 16U, 25% at 18U, and 1% in college.

Do most coaches, especially the ones who don't have a DD who is a pitcher not know to discuss these things with their pitchers, are they expecting the pitching coaches to be teaching this stuff?

In my experience, few HS and TB coaches have a clue about pitching. (And, when a parent runs into a parent into a coach who does know something about pitching, they immediately think the coach is stupid--or think, "There has to be an easier way.")

HS and TB Coaches don't have the time to do this. A PC only sees your DD *maybe* one hour a week. No one becomes good at any activity--whether it is artistic, musical, intellectual or athletic--practicing that activity one hour a week.
 
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marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
Simply? Pitching is a LOT of work and not everyone wants to put in the time.

And it does take a certain type of person to go out in the middle of the field and deal with the various mental side of pitching as well. When given the option, a lot would rather not do it.

Also a lot of girls never get past just throwing it hard past people in 10U/12U so never develop into real pitchers - and for the less talented teams they face it may be enough even at some of the older ages so maybe that is OK for their team.

Also pitching is just very, very scarce.

There are lots and lots of teams and just a limited number of pitchers. And since there just isn't a lot of late developing pitchers due to it being a learned motion, as girls leave the sport or decide to no longer pitch, the pitching pool just gets smaller and smaller. Go out and look at all the 12U teams or think about when your DD was in 12U - that pool of girls pitching is it. I can't think of a high level pitcher in our area who started pitching after 12U. It isn't baseball where you can put anyone in there to throw something resembling a strike.

Lastly there is not a lot of good instruction out there. There is a grand total of 2 pitching coaches in our area who really know what they are doing (and I am in a rich area of softball talent). Bad pitching coaches are booked solid. And most parents don't know the difference.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
IME, good pitchers have a strike to ball ratio of around 60-70% (with the sweet spot around 65%). Pitchers need to learn "how to be a pitcher" and not just be a "thrower".
 
May 18, 2009
1,314
38
So many variables in the equation. Pitcher on or off on a given day. How much have they pitched that day? That weekend? Wind direction, speed, rain or snow? Which pitch is being called? Coaches reaction to a miss pitch? Never forget, umpires strike zone!
 
Jan 30, 2018
252
0
SE Michigan
Simply? Pitching is a LOT of work and not everyone wants to put in the time.

And it does take a certain type of person to go out in the middle of the field and deal with the various mental side of pitching as well. When given the option, a lot would rather not do it.

Also a lot of girls never get past just throwing it hard past people in 10U/12U so never develop into real pitchers - and for the less talented teams they face it may be enough even at some of the older ages so maybe that is OK for their team.

Also pitching is just very, very scarce.

There are lots and lots of teams and just a limited number of pitchers. And since there just isn't a lot of late developing pitchers due to it being a learned motion, as girls leave the sport or decide to no longer pitch, the pitching pool just gets smaller and smaller. Go out and look at all the 12U teams or think about when your DD was in 12U - that pool of girls pitching is it. I can't think of a high level pitcher in our area who started pitching after 12U. It isn't baseball where you can put anyone in there to throw something resembling a strike.

Lastly there is not a lot of good instruction out there. There is a grand total of 2 pitching coaches in our area who really know what they are doing (and I am in a rich area of softball talent). Bad pitching coaches are booked solid. And most parents don't know the difference.

About the lack of good instruction out there, I find that very true in our area as well. There are probably 3 really good coaches within an hour then tons of mediocre to not good. We were fortunate to have gotten in with one of the good ones but saw one of the "not so good" ones before that. The worst to me is the dads that think they can just watch a couple youtube videos and are pros. Or go to a couple lessons and think they can take over and save $. Usually they end up doing more harm than good. I have been through three years of lessons with my daughter, and watched hundreds of videos and I know just enough to be dangerous. While I can help out a little here and there I would not say I was qualified to really teach a girl (not my daughter) how to properly hurl it. I can tell the obvious flaws and help them correct them but nothing too technical. I know my own daughter well so her flaws are even more evident to me. We pitch on average 4 times a week including the 2 practices, 1 lesson per week, and another independent session she and I. I usually take a catcher with us to lessons so I can listen to her coach so I can understand what she should be doing. I can't stand it when parents teach a youngster the wrong way then have them practice it over and over and over, they then become that much harder to break and do it correctly.
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,581
83
NorCal
Good pitchers can throw strikes. Great pitchers can throw quality strikes.

Like real estate pitching is about location, location, location.

But to be great at pitching you need to be as dedicated as Sluggers, Riseball or JAD's DDs (and a few others on this site that I'm sure I missed). It really takes a ton of hours throwing to translate into that kind of success and it has to be throwing with a purpose, not just going through the motions which is what a lot of kids do.
 

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