Riseball Strategy Question

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Feb 26, 2015
12
1
Long story short...

My daughter- 14. 9th grade. pitcher (pitched since she was 8- on 3 different travel ball teams- little league all-star state tournaments. pitches on an A travel team this year for the first time).

...But she doesn't throw a rise yet.

She's been with the same instructor since she was 10 (local). She started going to a tincher instructor at the beginning of 13u (but a far drive away from us)...

Neither instructor has given her the rise ball to work on yet.

We don't question it. We trust the instructors & we've heard from both denny tincher plus his instructor that having a large quantity of pitches isn't the solution. We agree. At Tincher lessons she works on fastball, change & drop only- good location. Speed is ok.

At lessons with her longtime instructor from 10yo- she's also been taught curve & screw too. She has those both pretty good too and puts some time in on them.

But no one has even MENTIONED the rise ball to us along the way. We're just waiting. Whatever.


==========================================================

Well... her first school practices ever were this week and ALL the high school coach cares about... is the riseball. Apparently it is ALL he calls. It is all he asks about. And sure enough he asked her this week. When she mentioned all the pitches she has and that she doesn't have the rise ball... apparently he walked away from her. Hasn't talked to her again.

My daughter is BEYOND upset. In her eyes... she's now pitcher#3 instead of pitcher#2 where she hoped she'd be. And so be it. And we're talking her through that.

My dilemma is what to do/think about the rise. Do we go ahead and seek out & search help with it. This year? For next year? I don't know anything about this? She's had fast, change, drop, curve & screw since she was 11! What causes the delay in YEARS to even be introduced to the rise ? What am i missing? Is she not even going to have the rise by next year? What would you do?

If she wasn't so upset- it would be a different story... it would. But she's inconsolable. She wants to know what in the world is so wrong with her that no one is teaching her the rise ball.
 
Last edited:

shaker1

Softball Junkie
Dec 4, 2014
894
18
On a bucket
My DD is in the same situation. Rise, rise, rise is all we heard last year, even though I've yet to see anything but bullet in our area. Most just throw the same spin to different locations. So we worked on a serviceable ramp ball, as some would call it. Just a bullet spun fastball, thrown up in the zone. She picked it up rather fast, and has thrown it in practice. The plan is to use that as we're working on a rise.
 
Feb 26, 2015
12
1
My DD is in the same situation. Rise, rise, rise is all we heard last year, even though I've yet to see anything but bullet in our area. Most just throw the same spin to different locations. So we worked on a serviceable ramp ball, as some would call it. Just a bullet spun fastball, thrown up in the zone. She picked it up rather fast, and has thrown it in practice. The plan is to use that as we're working on a rise.
had a feeling we'd be considering the same. thx
 
Apr 28, 2014
2,316
113
Funny.. our High School coach is the exact opposite. My DD throws FB, Curve, Screw, Change and has a good rise but doesn't throw a drop. He's a drop ball coach. My DD loves her change as her FB is 58-59MPH which at 14 is pretty good but not gonna blow anyone away. He would rather a pitcher with a drop ball. DD is working on that but hates the pitch. High School coaches should spend more time learning their pitchers as opposed to try to make girls throw pitches that they don't have. DD pitched in a scrimmage and blew the Varsity girls away. His drop ball pitcher couldn't find the zone and walked 3 out of the first 4 she faced. That and her FB is 52MPH. Gonna be a long spring :)
 
Last edited:
Feb 26, 2015
12
1
Funny.. our High School coach is the exact opposite. My DD throws FB, Curve, Screw, Change and has a good rise but doesn't throw a drop. He's a drop ball coach. My DD loves her change as her FB is 58-59MPH which at 14 is pretty good but not gonna blow anyone away. He would rather a pitcher with a drop ball. DD is working on that but hates the pitch. High School coaches should spend more time learning their pitchers as opposed to try to make girls throw pitches that they don't have. DD pitched in a scrimmage and blew the Varsity girls away. His drop ball pitcher couldn't find the zone and walked 3 out of the first 4 she faced. That and her FB is 52MPH. Gonna be a long spring :)

Same. My daughter's speed is right there in the same neighborhood as yours. And the other pitcher you described at your school is something I could imagine happening this spring with our #2 {rise ball pitcher} here. She's never been known to easily find the zone with her fast ball... but hey... at least she can throw a riseball. ugh. Maddening.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
@ 90% of pitchers who claim to throw a Riseball are really throwing high fastballs...I would also like to point out that when a batter squares up a Riseball they tend to go a long way!
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
A pitching coach that effectively teaches sound mechanics is a rare commodity. Finding one of those same pitching coaches that can teach a rise is extremely rare. Along with finding one of these coaches you also need to have a pitcher that is physically inclined to throw the pitch. If the pitcher cannot get open and stay open through release you will never get more than bullet spin. The rise, like every other pitch is not for everyone. Some pitchers can throw it others cannot. Find what your kid is naturally inclined to throw and stick with it. If that is a rise, great. If not move on and use the time on something productive. You do not need a slew of pitches. If you think your DD has 4 -5 game ready pitches, trust me she does not. Many pitchers at the top level have one great pitch and one or two others that are pretty good. My DD made a career out of only throwing a rise, fast ball, and change because that is what worked for her. But she could never throw a traditional curve or drop. Find out what works and roll with it. That said, any pitcher headed to college needs to have at least one pitch that is a down ball. Rollover, peel, tailing FB, does not matter. When blue is squeezing the zone, a down ball may very well keep you in the circle and save the day.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
I'm trying to enlighten you about pitching. Please keep an open mind.

What am i missing?

Simple...you have fed a bunch of malarkey by your PC, softball buddies and TV announcers.

"Having a pitch" means that the pitcher can get movement on a pitch and place the pitch at any location she wants at any time she wants. She has to able to throw the pitch for a strike in the bottom of the 7th with a 1 run lead with runners at 2B and 3B.

Pitchers usually have a fastball, change and *one* breaking pitch. Why not more breaking pitches? Because it takes forever to perfect a breaking pitch.

She's had fast, change, drop, curve & screw since she was 11!

Clayton Kershaw is more than $25 million a year to pitch. He can get the best coaches around. He can practice at the best facilities. His full time job is pitching. He has been pitching for 15 years. He can devote 40 hours a week to it. Kershaw throws a drop (it is called a curve in baseball), a fastball, and a 4 seam fastball. Kershaw has *THREE* pitches.

Yet, you believe that your13YOA DD throws 5 pitches.

Does that make any sense?

What am i missing?

The bottom line is that you and your DD have been "chasing breaking pitches" rather than perfecting one breaking pitch. There is a good chance your DD doesn't have any breaking pitches.

My dilemma is what to do/think about the rise. Do we go ahead and seek out & search help with it.

IMHO, you need to look for a different PC.

Learning a rise isn't hard.

Perfecting a rise is very hard. Perfecting a rise is up to your DD. It takes a tremendous amount of work.

The other thing to know: Riseballs are not the alpha and omega of pitching. They are not nearly as effective in 2018 as they were in 2008.

As to what to think about the rise....

Good hitters are much better trained today. With the new bats, a poorly thrown rise will be hit out of the park.

Throwing a rise is much riskier today than it was 10 years ago.

A pitcher with a really good rise are still effective. But, a so-so rise isn't going to cut it.
 
Last edited:
Feb 26, 2015
12
1
I'm trying to enlighten you about pitching. Please keep an open mind.



Simple...you have fed a bunch of malarkey by your PC, softball buddies and TV announcers.

"Having a pitch" means that the pitcher can get movement on a pitch and place the pitch at any location she wants at any time she wants. She has to able to throw the pitch for a strike in the bottom of the 7th with a 1 run lead with runners at 2B and 3B.

Pitchers usually have a fastball, change and *one* breaking pitch. Why not more breaking pitches? Because it takes forever to perfect a breaking pitch.



Clayton Kershaw is more than $25 million a year to pitch. He can get the best coaches around. He can practice at the best facilities. His full time job is pitching. He has been pitching for 15 years. He can devote 40 hours a week to it. Kershaw throws a drop (it is called a curve in baseball), a fastball, and a 4 seam fastball. Kershaw has *THREE* pitches.

Yet, you believe that your13YOA DD throws 5 pitches.

Does that make any sense?



The bottom line is that you and your DD have been "chasing breaking pitches" rather than perfecting one breaking pitch. There is a good chance your DD doesn't have any breaking pitches.



IMHO, you need to look for a different PC.

Learning a rise isn't hard.

Perfecting a rise is very hard. Perfecting a rise is up to your DD. It takes a tremendous amount of work.

The other thing to know: Riseballs are not the alpha and omega of pitching. They are not nearly as effective in 2018 as they were in 2008.

As to what to think about the rise....

Good hitters are much better trained today. With the new bats, a poorly thrown rise will be hit out of the park.

Throwing a rise is much riskier today than it was 10 years ago.

A pitcher with a really good rise are still effective. But, a so-so rise isn't going to cut it.

I don’t disagree with anything you said. Great post. And I can’t believe I said, “she has all these pitches “. I should not have said that. I should have reworded and said, “she was taught all the other pitches by 11.” You’re right about it all.


The problem is ... unless she “says” she throws a rise ... he’s not going to pitch her. Or we’ll spend our whole season proving he should pitch her anyway. Im guessing a lot will say the the answer is “spend the whole season proving he should pitch her anyway.“ I just fear it’s going to make for a very long season...Without a lot of pitching (until she proves it ). Ugh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
I'm a fan of a rise, drop, change combo... So all my pitchers start learning the rise when they're about 10 or 11... Will actually start throwing the rise by 2nd yr 12u. I have 3 freshman pitchers... All are high 50's to 60, all have a rise, and all are their teams Varsity Ace.
 

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