Curve ball doesn't curve

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Sep 3, 2015
372
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So DD had been throwing this 'curveball' which was basically a drop with tail action away from RHB (she's RHP). She was able to get lateral movement with it and it was very effective. PC was teaching her the palm up curve where it's held like a rise but she comes across her body when thrown, but slower. Her spin on the curve is good, but that sucker does not curve. No real movement. By learning the palm up curve, she 'lost' her old curve. PC says to get the 'nose up' on the ball to create movement but she's having trouble. She is learning to throw a 1-6 (2-7) drop to complement the 12-6 one, the 1-6 gives lateral movement and is almost a curve but as long as it's effective who cares. I think with all of the emphasis on the rise the pitch got lost. Any suggestions? DD is 1st year 14U, (53-55mph). Thanks
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
I think a lot of PC don't let girls experiment enough. Instead of completely changing how she throws she should making small adjustments with rotation, grips and finger pressure and see exactly what impact these changes have. If a little pressure here makes the ball move a little try more pressure and see if it moves more and so on. How much difference does it make when I position my fingers one fingers width different on the ball etc. I'm not sure you need a curve that breaks a foot if you have a drop that you can make break a foot depending on how you throw it. A riseball is probably the biggest different pitch and one you can't make small adjustment and replicate its a complete different animal.

I think guys do this a lot more just tinkering with their grips and spins; girls should to more of it
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
Any suggestions?

Sure...develop *ONE* great breaking pitch. You are making a very common mistake--trying to develop 6 different pitches (rise, 12-6 drop, 2-7 drop, curve, FB and change). Having a bunch of mediocre pitches means she is a mediocre pitcher.

My advice: Take the drop or the rise, which ever she throws the best, and develop that as her breaking pitch. Forget the rest of the breaking pitches. Work on the chosen breaking pitch, the FB and the change until she can locate each pitch on the river 100% of the time and at different vertical heights.

Here are a few things to ponder:

(a) 20-something YOA MLB pitchers are paid millions of dollars to pitch. They have spend years perfecting their pitching. They have the time, money and coaching to practice as much as they want...yet, they have only three pitches at most. (Most have only two.) Does it any sense that a 14YOA kid knows six pitches?

(b) The only SB pitcher with several pitches was Cat Osterman...she threw a FB, drop, rise, curve and change...which is one less than your DD.

(c) Few D1 pitchers have more than 1 breaking pitch. They have either a great rise or a great drop, and then develop great accuracy with a FB located opposite the breaking pitch.

(d) My DD pitched D1 in colllege and did well. She had a drop ball and a fastball--no change, no rise, no curve, no screw. Why did she succeed? She could throw the drop at 3 different levels (ankle, shins, knees). She could throw it for a strike. She could change speeds with it (62MPH down to 50MPH). She could throw it anywhere over the plate. And, she could do all of this on demand, even in the bottom of the 7th with a runner at 3rd, 3-2 count, 2 outs, and the score tied.

(e) This softball season, turn down the volume of the TV (so you don't hear the announcer) and watch the spins on the ball. You will see that few D1 pitchers have even one breaking pitch. The real commonality between all good D1 pitchers is control. Against high level batters, any pitch--rise, drop, curve, screw, change, etc.--left over the plate is going over the fence.

(f) Some people like Gary Haning, some don't. But, no one has ever said the guy doesn't know softball. Read this article by Gary: Why So Many Pitches
 
Last edited:
Sep 3, 2015
372
63
Sure...develop *ONE* great breaking pitch. You are making a very common mistake--trying to develop 6 different pitches (rise, 12-6 drop, 2-7 drop, curve, FB and change). Having a bunch of mediocre pitches means she is a mediocre pitcher.

My advice: Take the drop or the rise, which ever she throws the best, and develop that as her breaking pitch. Forget the rest of the breaking pitches. Work on the chosen breaking pitch, the FB and the change until she can locate each pitch on the river 100% of the time and at different vertical heights.

Here are a few things to ponder:

(a) 20-something YOA MLB pitchers are paid millions of dollars to pitch. They have spend years perfecting their pitching. They have the time, money and coaching to practice as much as they want...yet, they have only three pitches at most. (Most have only two.) Does it any sense that a 14YOA kid knows six pitches?

(b) The only SB pitcher with several pitches was Cat Osterman...she threw a FB, drop, rise, curve and change...which is one less than your DD.

(c) Few D1 pitchers have more than 1 breaking pitch. They have either a great rise or a great drop, and then develop great accuracy with a FB located opposite the breaking pitch.

(d) My DD pitched D1 in colllege and did well. She had a drop ball and a fastball--no change, no rise, no curve, no screw. Why did she succeed? She could throw the drop at 3 different levels (ankle, shins, knees). She could throw it for a strike. She could change speeds with it (62MPH down to 50MPH). She could throw it anywhere over the plate. And, she could do all of this on demand, even in the bottom of the 7th with a runner at 3rd, 3-2 count, 2 outs, and the score tied.

(e) This softball season, turn down the volume of the TV (so you don't hear the announcer) and watch the spins on the ball. You will see that few D1 pitchers have even one breaking pitch. The real commonality between all good D1 pitchers is control. Against high level batters, any pitch--rise, drop, curve, screw, change, etc.--left over the plate is going over the fence.
I see your point, but I don't want DD to have 6 pitches. Her drop is her fastball and I wanted her to ditch the curve in favor of this alternate drop. She never threw the curve in a traditional way anyway. So she would throw a drop, rise, and change. But I see your point and it makes sense. Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
Sounds like her "old" curve was actually a cutter. (drop ball with tail)
Palm up curve will only break if the axis is vertical.... look for her palm orientation at release. I'm betting she has a premature rotation, thus producing a bullet spin.
And as we all know, bullet spin is designed to stay true...that's why gun barrels have rifling!
 
Apr 12, 2015
792
93
(b) The only SB pitcher with several pitches was Cat Osterman...she threw a FB, drop, rise, curve and change...which is one less than your DD.

And if you've ever met Cat and seen the size of her hands and the length of her fingers you know why she was a spin master....and a very unique case.
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
For fun I learned a palm up curve:

CBBehindMOV_zpsrc05akwh.gif


Just stepping into it, it takes me several warm ups to get it flat and and moving. If my hand/wrist isn't cocked enough, I get crise spin. If I allow my hand to pronate though release, I get spiral spin. It's definitely an art. Grip and a cue or two—might not be enough. The spin might look good but it just doesn't move... I like what Hillhouse says about this--something like snapping or whipping harder.

The palm up is a fun pitch to play with but the more drive and effort you put into it, the more spiral it becomes. I'm 6.4 and have very large hands and long fingers and it takes me several throws to get it really moving. I think this pitch is great for helping develop body awareness, but unless you're long and lanky, it's a tough pitch to get to work in full motion.

If you really want a curve, go with BoardMember's Corkscrew, where the middle finger tip touches the ball last on the middle/inside of the ball. It doesn't have the movement of a palm up curve, but it does move...
 
Last edited:

Chris Delorit

Member
Apr 24, 2016
343
28
Green Bay, WI
Sure...develop *ONE* great breaking pitch. You are making a very common mistake--trying to develop 6 different pitches (rise, 12-6 drop, 2-7 drop, curve, FB and change). Having a bunch of mediocre pitches means she is a mediocre pitcher.

My advice: Take the drop or the rise, which ever she throws the best, and develop that as her breaking pitch. Forget the rest of the breaking pitches. Work on the chosen breaking pitch, the FB and the change until she can locate each pitch on the river 100% of the time and at different vertical heights.

Here are a few things to ponder:

(a) 20-something YOA MLB pitchers are paid millions of dollars to pitch. They have spend years perfecting their pitching. They have the time, money and coaching to practice as much as they want...yet, they have only three pitches at most. (Most have only two.) Does it any sense that a 14YOA kid knows six pitches?

(b) The only SB pitcher with several pitches was Cat Osterman...she threw a FB, drop, rise, curve and change...which is one less than your DD.

(c) Few D1 pitchers have more than 1 breaking pitch. They have either a great rise or a great drop, and then develop great accuracy with a FB located opposite the breaking pitch.

(d) My DD pitched D1 in colllege and did well. She had a drop ball and a fastball--no change, no rise, no curve, no screw. Why did she succeed? She could throw the drop at 3 different levels (ankle, shins, knees). She could throw it for a strike. She could change speeds with it (62MPH down to 50MPH). She could throw it anywhere over the plate. And, she could do all of this on demand, even in the bottom of the 7th with a runner at 3rd, 3-2 count, 2 outs, and the score tied.

(e) This softball season, turn down the volume of the TV (so you don't hear the announcer) and watch the spins on the ball. You will see that few D1 pitchers have even one breaking pitch. The real commonality between all good D1 pitchers is control. Against high level batters, any pitch--rise, drop, curve, screw, change, etc.--left over the plate is going over the fence.

(f) Some people like Gary Haning, some don't. But, no one has ever said the guy doesn't know softball. Read this article by Gary: Why So Many Pitches

Great job.
 

Chris Delorit

Member
Apr 24, 2016
343
28
Green Bay, WI
Sounds like her "old" curve was actually a cutter. (drop ball with tail)
Palm up curve will only break if the axis is vertical.... look for her palm orientation at release. I'm betting she has a premature rotation, thus producing a bullet spin.
And as we all know, bullet spin is designed to stay true...that's why gun barrels have rifling!

Nice James.

Sweet clip art, it's a better representation than even a real photo!! :cool:

Chris
 

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