Natural drop movement on fastball?

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Oct 11, 2010
8,337
113
Chicago, IL
My DD's drop is happening on middle and high pitches. The drop is not nearly as noticeable as your DD, where the ball comes in below the glove.

My ignorance will be showing when I say I don't know the difference between a drop and a late break.

Kershaw is a good example of late break, ball gets to batter then breaks opposed to turning the entire way.
 
Mar 8, 2017
78
8
What is forward spin? Does that mean the axis of rotation is parallel to the line between 1st and 3rd?

Forward spin is kind of like the spin you do when playing with a yoyo. Assuming your daughter holds her fastball as a four seam(which is described in your post to actually be a dropball), run a piece of electrical tape across the 4 seams. It'll be easy to see the spin.
 
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
I don't know the difference between a drop and a late break.

A late break is just a small break (compared to a drop or a big break). Remember the ball is always breaking it just depends how much. When someone says late break it just means a small break.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
"Top spin" is used in golf, tennis, ping pong, etc. So, of course, softball people want to refer to it as something else. Top spin is simply 12-6 spin when the ball is viewed by the batter.

My ignorance will be showing when I say I don't know the difference between a drop and a late break.

The object of pitching is to get the batter to swing at the wrong location. E.g., the pitcher wants the batter to predict that the ball will be 24inches above the plate, but the ball ends up at 12 inches above the plate.

Even with a wrong prediction, good batters react during the swing and modify the swing path in order to hit the ball.

The pitcher wants to give the batter as little time as possible to modify the swing *and* the pitcher wants the batter to try to make large adjustments during the swing.

So, you end up with two different requirements for the pitcher:

(a) make the batter adjust the swing as much as possible. (the amount of movement on a ball) *and*
(b) giver the batter as little time as possible to adjust the swing (this is "late break").

LATE BREAK

(NOTE: Knuckleball pitches are in a different category than other breaking pitches.)

Late break refers to when the batter identifies that the pitch is a breaking pitch.

Suppose Suzy shows the batter her drop ball grip to the batter before the pitch. (This happens a lot at the younger ages.) The batter then knows that the pitch is a drop. Thus, the batter is not "surprised" when the pitch is low.

Therefore, no matter how much spin the pitcher puts on the ball, the pitch does not have late break.

Sally, on the other hand, hides her grip when she throws a drop. Her release is identical for all of her pitches. Her pitches have the same release angle. Therefore, a batter can only detect that the ball is a drop only after the pitch is about 1/2 way to the plate. Sally's drop has "late break".

DROP BALL

A drop is a ball thrown with a lot of top spin. "A lot of top spin" means that it is spinning at 25RPS or more. After your around softball for a while, you are able to identify someone throwing a "real" drop.

Effective D1 pitchers have late break and good ball movement. With a good drop ball and late break, batters will be swinging 12 inches or more above the ball.
 
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May 17, 2012
2,804
113
Thus, the batter is not "surprised" when the pitch is low. Therefore, no matter how much spin the pitcher puts on the ball, the pitch does not have late break.

While this may be true from a hitting perspective it's not true from a pitching perspective. A pitch is either late breaking or it's not.

Similar to a riseball, just because a batter isn't there to witness "the rise" doesn't mean that it didn't "rise".

It's semantics...I know.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
While this may be true from a hitting perspective it's not true from a pitching perspective. A pitch is either late breaking or it's not.

I disagree. (Again, ignoring the knuckleball.)

The amount a pitch breaks is objective. It can be measured. The PitchFX tool used in MLB does this regularly. They calculate the release position of the ball, the release angle of the ball, the velocity of the ball when it exits the hand, and the final position of the ball. They take that information and compare that with a ball thrown with zero spin. The difference is "the break". People who have seen enough softball can tell if a pitch moves or doesn't move...it just takes some experience.

Perhaps it is semantics...but late break is subjective to the batter. If a batter knows the pitch is a drop ball before it is thrown, then the ball will not have a "late break". The batter will not surprised at all when the ball moves.

There are things a pitcher can do to fool the batter and create a late break...hiding the ball, using same delivery mechanics for each pitch, etc.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
When a pitch moves significantly more in the last 25% of the time of flight than it does in the previous 75%, what is that if not a late break? More break?

Curveball_Trajectory.jpg
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
Here's one that's a little easier. The scale is not correct, but it helps one see how break appears to be greater in the last third.

Image.JPG
 
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