Bullet Spin Ueno

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Nov 16, 2017
406
63
I have really been researching the correct spin to teach my new pitchers. To sum up the debate points:

For Bullet Spin:
It is a natural spin when IR is done correctly.
The football drill teaches this.
Better accuracy
More speed
Easier to learn rise, curve, etc later

Against Bullet Spin:
Little to no movement
Easier to hit
Makes it harder to learn peel drop

My own observations: Finch, Scarborough and Cat all have fastball/riseball that appear in videos to have a bullet spin or very close to a bullet spin. In this video Ueno clear has bullet spin on a straight fastball.

https://youtu.be/TlIAHa7UOqE?t=814

My question is if all of these great pitchers are using this why are there so many people treating a bullet spin as the worst thing ever?
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
As you have seen, it possible to have success with less-than-perfect spin. Same often holds true for the drop, curve, change and most notably--the screwball. I think the bottom line is if you know you can do better, why not strive for it? For several years, I believed that spiral spin was good enough--until I started seeing proof that it is possible to get darn close to 6/12 spin:



Things started to click for me and my kids, so I've been teaching them to strive for backspin. On top of learning the cues, fostering awareness of good/bad spin and how to make the adjustments have been keys for refinement. It REALLY helps if the catcher/bucket parent knows what to look for and can communicate good/bad.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Pitcher X throws thousands of pitches a year. Someone looks at a handful of videos void of any context and concludes that is what and how pitcher X throws. I am sure that pitcher X only wishes that they were that consistent day in and day out.

FWIW: On no planet in any galaxy does proper IR spin yield bullet spin. If you are throwing a bullet spin fastball something is dorked up. :)
 
Nov 16, 2017
406
63
Ken thanks for your reply. I guess I need to be more clear about what I am asking. Why is bullet spin "less than perfect". What makes 6/12 ideal. Why do the best still use bullet spin? Surely they are good enough to throw the ball however they have determined is the best way. I can teach anything I can understand. I can preach all day long on rotational vs linear hitting, because I fully understand the pros and cons to an absurd level. I know in the end there will be disagreements but I am looking for specifically or scientifically why a 6/12 spin is prefered. If it is indeed a preferred way what do those who prefer it have to say about all of the greats that use bullet spin with great success?
 
Nov 16, 2017
406
63
I just found this video which really confuses me. Here Cat Osterman says it "doesn't matter" if your fastball is downseam or corkscrew/bullet. So there is three camps now and not 2. The Pro Bullet The Con Bullets and the It don't matter. As a coach it does matter. I need to be able to answer my parents with some real good reasons on why one spin is prefered.
[video]https://youtu.be/Vzvo42UsJmA?t=94[/video]
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
In my limited experience, most pitchers strive for 6/12, but end up with serviceable spirals. I don't believe many (if any) train for a spiral. I don't have the definitive answer, but in conversations with folks like Balswick, Javasource and others, backspin is a worthy goal.

I've wanted to shoot some video with 2-3 cameras and document speeds, spin and profile, but don't have the resources to pull it off. I'd love for a university to take on a project like this! I know a couple guys with the resources and knowledge to pull this off, but I hear they're tied up with some crazy business venture ;)
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
Very few pitchers actually get pure 6-12 backspin on their riseball. Most are very effective throwing tilted upward (as seen by the catcher) bullet spin riseballs. IMO, the reason it is effective is it doesn't drop as quickly as other movement pitches, it's normally thrown high in the strike zone, and it has some speed to it. It can be very effective even if not thrown "correctly". Case in point, Monica Abbott and Sarah Pauly.
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
since we are on the subject of bullet spin,
what i often wonder is:
what makes an overhand bullet (aka “slider”)
such a nasty unhittable pitch,
yet an underhand bullet is a flat “dinger bait”?
is it the downward trajectory, smaller ball size, greater seam to smooth surface ratio, etc of a baseball pitch that makes the difference?
 
Last edited:
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Those who have spent time in the circle will tell you that their spin is rarely perfect. The pitch and yaw will be a bit off and may or may not be consistent from pitch to pitch. If it is consistent you are having a good day. Pitches are defined by their rotation, not the intent of the pitcher. Otherwise every 10U pitcher would have 7 pitches. A high pitch thrown with bullet spin is not a riseball. It is a high pitch thrown with bullet spin. It is what it is. If it works, it works. Will it work as well as a true riseball? Not a chance. But again, if it works...
 

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