Hand position at 3 O'-Clock?

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May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
for max velocity=palm up

the action of keeping the forearm “loaded” in a palm up position to the 3:00, will maximize the added whip action of lower arm pronation into release.
also: a palm up at 3:00 is a good indicator the pitcher is pulling the ball down the back half of the arm circle and not pushing.

for drop spin: some have an easier time getting 12-6 spin axis if ball faces out (toward 3B for RHP) at the 3:00 position
 
May 23, 2012
365
18
Eastlake, OH
for max velocity=palm up

the action of keeping the forearm “loaded” in a palm up position to the 3:00, will maximize the added whip action of lower arm pronation into release.
also: a palm up at 3:00 is a good indicator the pitcher is pulling the ball down the back half of the arm circle and not pushing.

for drop spin: some have an easier time getting 12-6 spin axis if ball faces out (toward 3B for RHP) at the 3:00 position

Is your 3:00 my 9:00?

From Boardmember in an older thread, https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/15747-need-help-6.html#post186606

"Up Through Her Vision" is not a term I'm familiar with, although I can understand the concept of it's meaning. However, I also think there could be some confusion as to what it really means........Let me say this. "Up through the vision" does NOT MEAN: Bring the ball up directly in front of your entire face"..........It means that if the shoulders are turning to about 45 -75 degrees open as the ball passes parallel to the ground in front of you, you should be able to SEE THE BALL with your eyes DIRECTLY in front and toward the target. The ball should NEVER pass LITERALLY BETWEEN YOUR ENTIRE FACE AND YOUR TARGET..........

The idea of this is to promote a straight toward the target arm circle EVEN THOUGH the shoulders are open, which brings the ball close to the vision line..........Some kids arm circle follows the shoulder line, instead of the target. When the shoulders open before the arm reaches the vision line, the circle can go OUT away from the body and target line as it follows the shoulder line. This cue will teach them to keep the arm circle constantly in line with the target REGARDLESS of the position of the shoulder line. The shoulder can open and close, but the arm circle remains constantly in line with the target........

Cat has one of the most open mechanics on the planet. The ball never passes DIRECTLY between her face and the target.

2q9dfmd.gif


I think its a good cue. But like any other cue or drill, in the wrong hands it can be as bad as it is good...........

What concerns me about the result of this is that your DD is turning her fingers INSIDE THE BALL on the way up the circle..........This is NOT GOOD........Watch carefully what happens:

4jrrl4.gif


This move ALONE will create a horizontal bent at the elbow joint.

She needs to keep the ball facing DOWN through 3:00 in front of her, then FOWARD at 12:00 above her head, with a RELAXED elbow, NOT a BENT ELBOW. Never twisting the ball inwards or outwards between 3:00 in front and 12:00 above.............



Lets get the terms straight so we're on the same page........

On the left is a Flexed wrist. On the right is an extended wrist, which is also called "Dorsi-Flexed" wrist.......

0ee1d473dc114830d68647854f03e0d5.gif


NEVER extend (dorsi-flex) the wrist in the front half of the circle.........If anything the wrist should be slightly flexed. (See Hillhouse Above). Notice his wrist is NEVER extended (dorsi-flexed) past parallel with the forearm.......And in fact is slightly flexed almost the entire circle........

There are certain change ups and drops and crops that work better with a dorsi-flexed wrist.......But that happens as the ball is past 12:00........Later in the sequence..........
 

shaker1

Softball Junkie
Dec 4, 2014
894
18
On a bucket
Not sure there is a "set in stone" position at 3 o'clock. I see palm down mostly, but also palm in, palm out, and even a few at palm up. Maybe it doesn't become important until you get to 12.
 

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Last edited:
3 o'clock.....optimum hand position would be with the palm facing down or the knuckles facing the catcher.

As shaker has stated above....the real test is when the hand passes over the shoulder....then the optimum would be as Board Member has so aptly described it.....it should be in the "show it" position, which is the ball/palm facing the catcher.

These suggested optimum positions are most important for the health of the shoulder joint. Yes, they do affect performance also, but I would worry about a kids health first.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
3 o'clock.....optimum hand position would be with the palm facing down or the knuckles facing the catcher.

As shaker has stated above....the real test is when the hand passes over the shoulder....then the optimum would be as Board Member has so aptly described it.....it should be in the "show it" position, which is the ball/palm facing the catcher.

These suggested optimum positions are most important for the health of the shoulder joint. Yes, they do affect performance also, but I would worry about a kids health first.

Thank you Rick. Health of the shoulder is actually why I raised the question. Any explanation of why other positions are less healthful would be appreciated.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Rick, or others ... assuming a palm-down orientation at 3-o'clock is desirable, is there a best way to approach that coming out of the glove (6-o'clock)? Is coming out of the glove with an orientation of a hand-shake, palm towards 1B (righty), correct ... or should the orientation already be palm-down ... or does it matter?
 
Feb 22, 2013
206
18
Years and years ago(before youtube and DFP), as I sat on a bucket and caught my dd as she pitched, I could see that a crappy arm circle correlated to a crappy pitch. The farther that my dd's arm got away from her body from 3:00 to 12:00, the slower that her pitch would be. I experimented with my dd and had her pull the ball up with the palm facing down. It was an instant fix to a crappy arm circle. With the palm facing down at 3:00, my dd's arm circle couldn't stray too far away from her body.

As I gave thought as to why my dd had good and crappy arm circles early on in her pitching years, I attributed her crappy arm circles to learning the change up. I believed that she had learned to slow the pitch down by getting her arm circle farther away from her body, thus not being able to get as much velocity on the ball. As a result of having my dd's palm down at 3:00, my dd's change up became much more effective. She no longer tipped her change up with a wide arm circle.
 

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