Thanks riseball, I am really glad to hear you say that.
I am avoiding the radar gun like the plague.
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Thanks riseball, I am really glad to hear you say that.
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
I dunno... sort of struggling with this one...
The more I do this pitching coach thing... the more I recognize that my real purpose is that of creating awareness.
If I were a college coach... and I asked a player what speed their pitch was... or what made that ball move... or how are you taking speed off the ball, etc... the last thing I'd want for an answer is, "Not really sure." To me... these kind of answers mean the kid has been pitching in the dark.
I'm not suggesting that you break out the radar gun every session... but if you don't occasionally break it out what feedback do you have that you're making progress? A pitcher has three tools... speed, spin, spot... and no matter what level of competition we sentence them to... if they enjoy it and want to work on it, then we owe it to them to help them progress.
Although a separate topic... I recall a relatively recent conversation with a sophomore at a D1 school... and I asked her what made her drop ball, "drop". She said, "I don't know, the spin perhaps...". To which I then asked, "what spin are you throwing?" She said, "down spin." I said, "show me what that looks like on the next 5 pitches." So... she threw her 5 pitches... not a word from me. Everyone of them had decent spot... so I asked her what she thought of her drop spin... to which she replied, "looked good."
The truth? Bulletspin.
It occurred to me that she had no clue... zero awareness. Once I gave her that awareness... it became painfully obvious that she could not hold a decent axis going 100%... or 64mph. However, she could hold a drop axis at 52. How do I know? Radar. Now... she knows a number she can work on building off of... without that awareness... how can she validate progress?
I could go on and on with these kinds of stories... but the point is that speed is much more than a top-out number... and when you know what it can represent, there's nothing to worry about, fear, or hide from... other than awareness... or "seeing the light."
The more I do this pitching coach thing... the more I recognize that my real purpose is that of creating awareness.
If I were a college coach... and I asked a player what speed their pitch was... or what made that ball move... or how are you taking speed off the ball, etc... the last thing I'd want for an answer is, "Not really sure." To me... these kind of answers mean the kid has been pitching in the dark.
I'm not suggesting that you break out the radar gun every session... but if you don't occasionally break it out what feedback do you have that you're making progress? A pitcher has three tools... speed, spin, spot... and no matter what level of competition we sentence them to... if they enjoy it and want to work on it, then we owe it to them to help them progress.
Although a separate topic... I recall a relatively recent conversation with a sophomore at a D1 school... and I asked her what made her drop ball, "drop". She said, "I don't know, the spin perhaps...". To which I then asked, "what spin are you throwing?" She said, "down spin." I said, "show me what that looks like on the next 5 pitches." So... she threw her 5 pitches... not a word from me. Everyone of them had decent spot... so I asked her what she thought of her drop spin... to which she replied, "looked good."
The truth? Bulletspin.
It occurred to me that she had no clue... zero awareness. Once I gave her that awareness... it became painfully obvious that she could not hold a decent axis going 100%... or 64mph. However, she could hold a drop axis at 52. How do I know? Radar. Now... she knows a number she can work on building off of... without that awareness... how can she validate progress?
I could go on and on with these kinds of stories... but the point is that speed is much more than a top-out number... and when you know what it can represent, there's nothing to worry about, fear, or hide from... other than awareness... or "seeing the light."
Excellent advice, and I can imagine later on, once my DD is seriously working on more than spotting her fastball and perfecting her change up, it could be of value. I just don't want to start getting concerned about speed now.
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Bob, what causes spot? And there's a touch of irony in your response... you use the word, "fastball". What makes it fast? And how fast is that... ; )
If I throw a fastball with topspin, and one with gyro spin... are they the same spot? In one... are we throwing a $5 ball onto a $400 bat... and in the other... are we throwing the ball away from the bat? Seems like a better strategy.
Although the title of your posts suggests you are closed to conversation... and already made up your mind... it's obvious you would like to hear other thoughts... so... that's why I write to you and all interested in this thread.
IMO... I think you're tackling this pitching thing from an inefficient angle. I'd recommend: Speed. Spin. Spot. As opposed to what I assume is spot, speed, spin.
Mastering speed does not mean throwing 70. Rather, it's how we use it as a weapon... mixing, spotting, spinning, etc.
So... perceptively... from the batters POV... what's the difference between a 50 mph fastball thrown low and out and a 42 mph change at the hands? The answer might surprise you... they are perceptively, the same. But... if you don't know the speed of either... you end up with a change and fastball that get rocked... cause you don't know how to spin either away from the bat, or best utilize the speed difs. (I use "you", generically... I don't mean you...)
Yes, I am incredibly reluctant to start thinking about her speed right now. I assumed this was not the time to start checking her speed, that it would not be necessary for a brand new pitcher.
I also assumed there would be a time when it would be appropriate and didn't know when that would be.
I understand that spin is key to pitching, but neither her first PC from the summer, nor her new PC has put any emphasis on any particular spin, other than being pleased she has a lot of spin already. This past lesson her PC had her working on adducting her legs.
There was no irony intended in my previous post. If you thought there was irony, it may have been my poor choice of wording. To answer your question what makes a fastball, I don't know, I only know what her PC told her. I do not even know what grip she is using for her fastball. All I know is both pitching coaches, and the head of the organization she is playing for are all happy with how she is doing.
- Feb 7, 2013
- 3,188
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My 2 cents. Knowledge is power. The more information you have the better. Knowing her speed currently is a benchmark you can use to help increase speed. Just like knowing spin rate per second and recognizing spin direction is important. If you regularly catch your DD and care about her progress as a pitcher, acquiring these metrics are helpful for you and her as she practices each week to get better.
Thanks. How would I know the spin rate?
I think you missed my point. The pitcher knows how fast she throws, what makes the ball move, and how to... at least mine do. I have found that when someone immediately starts talking speed, sometimes it is better not answer. Like the guy whose 12 yo rec player DD brings 60's heat. If you do anything more than grunt you will start hearing about her 6 pitches.
A radar gun like a pitching machine is just another tool, which used properly under certain limited circumstances will increase performance. Use it too much and it may actually decrease performance. Radar is just a tool that provides a quantifiable metric. It is only measurement that is widely available to the public. So for some it is all there is to talk about.
When developing a pitcher there are times that you may want to know the speed of every pitch. At other times it is a distraction. Once pitchers understand what is important and what the data means the become oblivious to it. I used to gun Jake regularly from 12U through college. While the top speed is interesting what was really important was the working speed. Along with change in velocity as pitch counts increase, not just for the game, but within an inning. It was really about analyzing and understanding trends. Based on those trends we modified what she did and when she did it.
When developing a pitcher there are times that you may want to know the speed of every pitch. At other times it is a distraction. Once pitchers understand what is important and what the data means the become oblivious to it. I used to gun Jake regularly from 12U through college. While the top speed is interesting what was really important was the working speed. Along with change in velocity as pitch counts increase, not just for the game, but within an inning. It was really about analyzing and understanding trends. Based on those trends we modified what she did and when she did it.
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And that is how she became an SEC pitcher. And I say that with the utmost respect, I hope you took it that way.
My DD doesn't even know if she wants to play college ball, she says she does want to pitch through high school.
