Is HE a money grab?

mlewis7789 said:

Thanks. I knew there were 2 styles but had not heard those terms before.

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Just in case someone stumbles across this thread in the future.....I wouldn't call them styles like you would rotational vs linear hitting for example. HE or 'Hello Elbow' is simply the wrong way to pitch. You need to be able to identify it so you can avoid it.

Calling 'Hello Elbow' a style gives it to much merit in my opinion.

GunnerShotgun said:

Just in case someone stumbles across this thread in the future.....I wouldn't call them styles like you would rotational vs linear hitting for example. HE or 'Hello Elbow' is simply the wrong way to pitch. You need to be able to identify it so you can avoid it.

Calling 'Hello Elbow' a style gives it to much merit in my opinion.

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I can't thank that post above you made enough!

DD is a first year coach high school and was a pitcher in college, she also works with high school JV and MS teams. After showing pitchers on the high school team(s) IR mechanics was told not work with pitchers anymore because the mechanics she was teaching would not help the pitchers.

At 11 y/o we tried to switch my DD to IR. she was taught HE from the start around 9 y/o, found a great instructor and started to work through it. Unfortunately she just could not get it, we tried for over a year with a couple of ups and many downs to the point that she was so frustrated that she quit pitching.

You could see that it bothered her that she wasn't in the circle so i asked her if she wanted to go back to pitching we could go back to the HE style that she was more comfortable with. She has no D-1 aspirations, plays C-Level ball so I would rather have her doing what she really wants to do (pitch) then be miserable at Center field or 2nd, she said yes and we went to one of the local girls for lessons a couple times a month.

As we concentrated on trying to get her speed up, having her pitch long distance, I noticed the harder she was trying to throw, the more IR Mechanics came out in her delivery. It came about naturally as she tried throw harder. We still do the same warmups, Wrist snaps, K's and all that other make a muscle stuff, but when she is in the circle she's not pointing elbows or slamming doors. shes whipping her arm. When we were practicing the other day she said to me, "Dad, remember when we tried to do the Arm whip instead of wrist snapping? I really didn't like that very much." then went back to the rubber and proceeded to whip her arm through the rest of the practice, she really has no idea of the true fundamentals that she is using! I'm not saying a thing right now, just letting things take their course.

A few reasons why "Hello Elbow" is still taught:

- most PCs have no idea what produces good arm whip mechanics;
- they, themselves, were taught incorrectly but managed to figure it out and pitch well in HS/college even though they don't really know the biomechanical movements;
- they probably did a quick google search of how to teach beginning pitching techniques and saw lots of instructors advocating "hello elbow" mechancis;
- some of their students have found success, IN SPITE OF, their personal instruction, reinforcing to the PC that they must be doing something right!;
- most of their students give up pitching after several years in rec and a crop of new pitchers come to see them. It's a cycle that repeats itsself every year;
- there is more to pitching than just arm whip mechanics, and even though they are instructing incorrect arm whip mechanics, they are helping with other areas that might make the student somewhat successful such as good drive mechanics, pitch sequences, proper grip, etc.


Quick Story: when DD first learned to pitch, her former D1 instructor taught HE mechanics (I had no idea as a newbie pitchers dad). DD always had a hard time doing the HE mechanics as her hand and arm felt more natural, internally rotating, during the arm circle and finish. She actually had a lot of success because she would pitch her own way and didn't really do the full HE mechanics. After a few years, after reading DFP, I realized that the PC had no idea how good pitchers pitched and I called the PC on it. She had no idea what internal rotation was or even arm whip mechanics, showing me video of Jennie Finch training videos and even suggesting I buy a used Finch windmill to "fix" my DD arm whip mechanic mechanics!. While I liked her personality, her enthusiasm for the game, and I would ask her lots of questions about pitch strategy, pitch sequences, grips, stride mechanics, I ended up firing her as I just could not spend good money ($40 for 30 minutes of instruction) to someone who wasn't a student of the game. Fast forward 8 years and DD's current PC is much better in understanding the arm whip and arm circle mechanics but she doesn't emphasize it too much and focuses more on other areas of the pitching mechanics. The bottom-line is that 95% of the PCs out there do not know what they are doing. You need to educate yourself, carefully choose the right PC, and monitor progress. If your DD is not progressing every season, than you need to evaluate some PC alternatives. There are not too many Java's, BM's, Hillhouse's and KenB's out there but if you know what to look for, you will save yourself valuable time and money.