Hard to Watch

in a recent 16U tournament, I observed quite a few pitchers that were IP.
some were actually quite painful to watch. Blue didn't call it, parents were cheering on K's.




and some were very legal.




dang - how do you upload a GIF? it seems to come in as a jpg!

If DD and I are watching a game I like asking her if P is legal. If no why not.

An epidemic at all levels of the game. These 16u pitchers have probably been pitching that way since they learned how to pitch and since the umpires and governing bodies are instructing them NOT to call IPs, these pitchers will continue to pitch that way through HS and college. When I talk about the younger age groups being the breeding ground for illegal pitching, this is a perfect example.

I think we are not asking the right questions. What is it about the rules of pitching that makes it very difficult to be in compliance for 25%-50% of the pitchers and why are the people who should be enforcing these rules, actively instructed not to call illegal pitching? It's a perfect storm....and one that will not be resolved without serious questions being asked of the governing bodies.

Rocketech1 said:

What is it about the rules of pitching that makes it very difficult to be in compliance for 25%-50% of the pitchers

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I feel this is where you run into trouble with your argument. It seems to me you kind of take the position that there is something in the rules that makes it physically impossible for a certain percentage of pitchers to pitch legally. That idea is 100% false and borders on ludicrous.

The rules are not particularly vague nor are they particularly difficult to follow. The problem has nothing to do with the rules themselves or pitchers being physically unable to follow the rules. The entire problem boils down to one of enforcement. Lack of enforcement leads to a lack of incentive for pitchers or coaches to take the time to correct small things like crow hopping.

If you have a stretch of highway where the posted speed limit is 75 but everyone knows for fact no one will ever be cited for speeding on that stretch of road you are going to have some motorists that drive 75. You are also going to have some that drive 125. It seems to me your solution would be to ask why those driving 125 cannot drive 75 and change the speed limit to 125 so they are no longer speeding. The real solution is to simply ticket the drivers breaking the law, not change the law to suit them.

If IPs started being called on a consistent basis I'm 100% positive that 99.9999% of currently illegal pitchers would be pitching legally within a week.

Was at a 12u tournament in NJ over this past weekend. I was watching a fast pitcher for a very good team. When looking closer realized she was leaping and replanting a la a certain Florida pitcher. She was an extremely athletic girl and I am sure would have been very effective without any replant.

With that said I went over to a couple of umpires who were between games and asked them what the rule was for the drive foot and whether it could become airborne and lose contact with ground. First guy said it was OK for the foot to lose contact with the ground - in essence he seemed to indicate that the drive foot could do anything, although the way he answered was very confusing and lacked any sort of clarity. The second guy was going to contradict his partner and started to mention the foot needed to keep contact with the ground (i.e. drag toe) but then cut himself short and walked away. In short I thought I would get a short clear answer and instead received anything but.

Are there different rules bfor asd association/league at the 12u level that would lead to this lack of clarity?

Dinonj said:

Are there different rules bfor asd association/league at the 12u level that would lead to this lack of clarity?

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Sounds more like a guy trying not to paint himself into a corner. They know it's illegal. If they tell you it is and then don't call it, they know it can come back to bite them.

It's unfortunate, but won't expect anything to change until umps start calling it on a consistent basis.

On a side note, my DD's PC swears that replanters would throw faster if they didn't. Still having a hard time buying that. Though we would not do it for an advantage, prefer to come correct.

DNeeld said:

I feel this is where you run into trouble with your argument. It seems to me you kind of take the position that there is something in the rules that makes it physically impossible for a certain percentage of pitchers to pitch legally.

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I never said its physically impossible to pitch under the current rules. It's a complex issue. Let's take a sport similar to softball. Have you ever asked yourself why there are no IPs (balks) ever called in college baseball for improper pitching mechanics? Could the fact that they are not required to perform an unnatural movement like "leap and drag" have anything to do with it?

I would be in favor of a) only allowing "step-style" pitching again in softball or b) allow them to pitch like the men with leaping and replanting. It's a heck of a lot easier to both comply with either of these two regulations and very easy to enforce. Clearly the compliance and enforcement in the current regulations are not working and gives an unfair advantage to 1/4 (or more) of the pitchers putting the other 3/4 at a disadvantage. And when IPs are called, the penalty is too severe (runners move up one base and ball on batter) which is another reason the umpires do not want to call it.

Strict compliance is not the fix because you would need a separate "pitching umpire" (at all levels of the game) to only watch the pitcher and the vast majority of leagues and tournaments can't afford the additional umpire. Softball is a game (not criminal or civil law) and if the rules are not fair, equal, and enforceable for ALL the players, then you need to make adjustments. The softball regulations have and will continue to evolve over time and I think this whole "leap and drag" travesty has run it's course. When you have our most celebrated U.S. pitcher (Cat Osterman) leaping and replanting for over a decade, something is definitely broken.

I disagree. If you call more IP's then the pitchers began to work on pitching legally. When you allow IP's, you just encourage more of the same.


BTW I did see a balk or two called this weekend in baseball supers. But I didn't watch very much of it.

Good morning all. The reality is, ISF has changed the rules to allow leaping. NCAA and ASA won't be far behind, especially not while the bats and balls continue to improve.

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating IP'ing. But, those who bend the rules now will have the advantage when the time comes. And it's coming. I know, I know. All of those who've never been in the circle themselves will say rules are rules, I won't teach my daughter to cheat, etc. I get that. I respect that. But change is coming.

I don't read the other forums on here, only pitching when I have time and feel up to it. But, do as many people complain on those about slappers being out of box or runners leaving early to cheat? Just wondering.

Bill

I don't like slappers out of the box or runners leaving early, but we also are not giving glowing awards to those cheaters LOL. Pitching is a whole differ too animal. We don't have base running forum and a slapping forum here at DFP.

I respect your opinion. If the rules are a changing then lets make the change. Don't hold the others back that do follow the rules, AS THEY ARE WRITTEN.