Hillhouse and pitch callers

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Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
Hillhouse..."I guess this one will be answered right after someone tells me why girls aren't taught how to call their own games from behind the plate and always have to look into a coach for the pitch. Of course then they'd have to get rid of those nifty wrist bands."

I REALLY like this! Why? Because I believe most pitch callers from the dugout have an ego problem and more often than not do NOT have a very good understanding of the pitcher they are dictating to. And, many of them don't seem to give a rat's rear what the pitcher thinks. Yet, it's the pitcher who usually best knows herself.

The worst case scenario is when the pitcher ends up with some hillbilly, know-nothing-about-her calling her pitches for her.
 
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Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Which do you think is the most typical in HS/TB, the elite pitcher who really knows the game and is fully capable of calling her own game or the circle princess who is essentially clueless? How many pitchers have you seen that claim to have a specific pitch and when thrown it is not even close? And they are going to call the game? Sure there are some pitchers and catchers out there that are fully capable of calling a decent game but they are few and far between. But if you call yourself a coach, take a seat on the bucket and are unable to call a better game than the typical high school pitcher or catcher you probably belong in the stands and have no business in the dugout. IME very few coaches and even fewer pitchers or catchers have a clue how to call a game. In the end you have to hope that someone, anyone who does have a clue about pitch calling is throwing down the signs.

While I appreciate the sentimental stance of teaching pitchers and catchers to call the game, the premise is fatally flawed. Supposedly the coach is a moron and does not have this ability, so who then is to educate the pitcher or catcher? Is there a pitch calling fairy that will bestow that knowledge as they sleep? I think the reality of what is often proposed is for the coach to abdicate the responsibility, throw it over the fence to the pitcher or catcher to figure it out, and then hope for the best.
 
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Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
I have known a circle princess who was clueless.

I do believe most D1 and lower college programs have great pitch callers. However, I also know some pitch callers who have only known a pitcher for 2-3 months and who can easily be judged as hillbilly, couldn't-care-less about what a pitcher thinks (no communication, just dictating).

Of course, with all due respect, my observation has been diffeeent from yours, and it's most likely due to the quality of coaches you've been around.

I do agree with your statement "IME very few coaches and even fewer pitchers or catchers have a clue how to call a game."
 
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Nov 12, 2013
417
18
maritimes
having signals for 12 pitches does not mean you know how to call a game. the pitcher should know how her pitches are working that day and have a plan for attacking the batting order.

if the service doesn't matter, pitch calling doesn;t either. why do coaches bother then? control issues.
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
Which do you think is the most typical in HS/TB, the elite pitcher who really knows the game and is fully capable of calling her own game or the circle princess who is essentially clueless? How many pitchers have you seen that claim to have a specific pitch and when thrown it is not even close? And they are going to call the game? Sure there are some pitchers and catchers out there that are fully capable of calling a decent game but they are few and far between. But if you call yourself a coach, take a seat on the bucket and are unable to call a better game than the typical high school pitcher or catcher you probably belong in the stands and have no business in the dugout. IME very few coaches and even fewer pitchers or catchers have a clue how to call a game. In the end you have to hope that someone, anyone who does have a clue about pitch calling is throwing down the signs.

While I appreciate the sentimental stance of teaching pitchers and catchers to call the game, the premise is fatally flawed. Supposedly the coach is a moron and does not have this ability, so who then is to educate the pitcher or catcher? Is there a pitch calling fairy that will bestow that knowledge as they sleep? I think the reality of what is often proposed is for the coach to abdicate the responsibility, throw it over the fence to the pitcher or catcher to figure it out, and then hope for the best.

If only coaches call pitches, who will have the knowledge to call pitches when those coaches stop coaching? Start teaching catchers to do it at 12u and give them increasing responsibility and feedback and they'll be pros at it by 18u. And able to pass on the craft when they start coaching.

When did the coaches calling pitches today in TB etc learn and develop their skills? IME, for most it wasn't until they started coaching and they have no better idea of what they're doing when they start than a 12 year old starting out!
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
...I do believe most D1 and lower college programs have great pitch callers. However, I also know some pitch callers who have only known a pitcher for 2-3 months and who can easily be judged as hillbilly, couldn't-care-less about what a pitcher thinks (no communication, just dictating...

Disagree strongly on both counts. Without sitting behind the plate and seeing what is happening in real time with the hitter, umpire and pitcher, you are calling pitches base on what has happened in the past without regard to what is happening presently. IME, an experienced catcher needs only to warm up and talk to a pitcher before and during a game in order to call an effective game.
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
Our AC who calls pitches is really knowledgeable about pitch calling. We also video our games so he'll review them sometimes before we play a strong team that we've played before, see where pitches were that got clobbered. But a lot of the time if we're playing a pool game, particularly if it's against a weaker team, he'll have our pitcher and catcher call the game together. He'll talk to them about why he calls what pitches, etc. I think it's awesome that he does that (I'm biased re: how awesome he is since I'm married to him but really, it is pretty cool). This is 10U. When he's let them do that they've tended to do well. My DD has a good understanding of how to call a game (for her age, that is) from living with him and hearing all his strategy. I think it adds an extra layer for the players to get to do that.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Bottom line is they will most likely never call a game in college. So are you going to prepare a catcher for what they will be doing or spend time considerable time on what you personally think they should be doing come game time? Keep in mind that it is very common for college catchers to not have any real catching experience until they get to college. The truth is that TB catcher onlys have a high washout rate. Why? Why because they are obsessed with pop-times, blocking, and can't hit college pitching. If you want your DD to succeed as a catcher in college make them a hitter first, utility player who can also catch second. College programs do not want on trick ponies who only catch. They want athletes that can add value in multiple roles.

Jake is approaching her final games in college. She has rarely if ever had an issue with how the game was called from the dugout. However, she would have really appreciated having a consistent catcher that could receive a strike while keeping it a strike and field a bunt more than 2 feet in front of the plate. Along with that some blocking and the ability to keep runners at bay is a nice to have. As to what pitches to throw and how to attack each batter, that was already discussed days prior when they studied the video.
 
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Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
I think every coach has their own philosophy concerning the process, and I am not sure there is any one "correct" way to call pitches. Personally, I will never claim to be an "expert" at it, but I do have certain beliefs concerning the topic. As a travel coach, I am of the belief that it is my responsibility to teach the players what I know. So that is what I do.

Travel Ball: We have two catchers that are behind the plate for nearly all of our innings. Our top catcher takes about 75% of the time. Our #2 catcher does the other 25% but plays 3rd when not catching. Our top catcher has always been interested in calling games. Her dad was a D1 catcher who called his own games growing up. So between him and I, we have worked with her and explained why we call certain pitches at certain times. Now she handles this on her own. We chat with her and the pitcher between innings just to make sure everyone is on the same page, but otherwise we trust her talent. The other catcher is not comfortable calling pitches, so I call them when she is in there. But I will typically have one of the other pitchers sitting next to me. I will tell that pitcher what pitch to call and then she will signal it to the catcher. During the process I am explaining why I selected that pitch. My goal is to help them be capable of this process as well. As someone stated, no one knows the pitcher better than themselves. I have absolutely no issue with a pitcher calling off a pitch and asking for something else provided they can explain to me why they did so. While I agree that catchers should learn the process, I equally believe that pitchers should learn it as well. In watching this process last year, I would estimate that less than 20% of the teams we faced had a catcher calling pitches. The vast majority had a coach calling from the dugout.

High School: Our assistant coach was a catcher in college. Ironically she was actually a 3b prior to college but was converted to C in order to keep her bat in the lineup. So this supports what [MENTION=10413]riseball[/MENTION] stated earlier. But from her experience behind the plate, the HC has opted to have her call the pitches. We have a very inexperienced high school team that includes a catcher with only 1 year of rec ball experience. So I can understand why they choose to handle it this way. Throughout our entire season I only noticed one team that utilized a catcher calling pitches. This is a very experienced catcher whom I know very well. I would not hesitate to have her call pitches either. The catcher from our travel team is not permitted to call pitches for the high school team. The pitcher's dad is a member of the coaching staff and he insists on calling all the shots. If you ever meet this dad, it would come as no surprise.

College: DD and I have been to 4 college level games this spring (schools DD is interested in playing at). During those 4 games, we only witnessed one that had a catcher calling pitches. All others were called by coaches from the dugout. So the argument that "the catcher won't be doing it in college" does have some merit. However, I still don't see any harm in teaching this process to catchers and pitchers. Personally I think it can help them when batting as well. From what I have seen locally, most coaches that choose to call pitches themselves end up falling into patterns. And if you can teach a player how to recognize those patterns, they can be better prepared at the plate. That is my opinion anyway.
 
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