IR vs "Non"

Do you have video of her pitching?

if your DD has the desire to be the best that she can be, i'd start now. as others have mentioned, changing it later will be a much harder task.
my dd transitioned out from HE over 2 years ago. while the HE aspect has largely disappeared, there are remnants of the 'old-style' that sometimes manifests itself.

a word of caution. if you do decide to change, the first 6 months or more will be difficult, so do that in the off season. some can do it in-season, YMMV.

Ken B said:

With all of the misinformation out there, it amazes me how many kids do their routines of push down, wrist snap and pull up--yet throw with pretty good mechanics.

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I'm not too amazed by this. From my limited experience, pitching that way is actually more difficult and less natural than throwing with a natural IR motion (maybe not perfect mechanics). So despite what so many girls are taught, their bodies are naturally resisting the bad teaching because it's better and easier to just throw the ball using IR.

Ken B said:

With all of the misinformation out there, it amazes me how many kids do their routines of push down, wrist snap and pull up--yet throw with pretty good mechanics. Watch your daughter in slow motion. Does the upper arm pause at the side while the lower arm whips? Does she have good posture at release that promotes brush? If not and she is getting the job done now, unless she learns to whip, her pitching days will be limited at 12U and after.

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CoachJD said:

I'm not too amazed by this. From my limited experience, pitching that way is actually more difficult and less natural than throwing with a natural IR motion (maybe not perfect mechanics). So despite what so many girls are taught, their bodies are naturally resisting the bad teaching because it's better and easier to just throw the ball using IR.

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I used to feel the same way. But I came to the conclusion that since HE is a forced, unnatural action athletes will tend to find the most efficient method possible and naturally gravitate to IR. I guess we need a set of twins, one with HE and one with IR and leave them alone in the softball jungle....

Monica, Cat, Jennie, Angela, Amanda, etc... never heard of I/R... and they did just fine.

The real issue... is that those kids figured it out for themselves. Natural athletes that worked really hard... and have an ability to "deeply" practice... over others who don't (have that ability).

Unfortunately... the "others"... well... that's the other 99% of us... and where good coaching can really make a difference. If your daughter is not part of that 1%, and her goals are just as high... it would benefit you both to learn more about I/R and other pitching concepts discussed on this fantastic board.

I have a student who started with me last year as a HS sophomore. Right at the beginning of the season, too. She could throw pretty hard despite using a "turn it toward second and push it down the circle" motion. But she struggled with learning other pitches. She supposedly had a change, drop and rise, none of which worked.

I worked with her on developing I/R mechanics; it wasn't easy but she's a really quick learner (or adapter) so it helped. Especially with the non-fastball. Then she hurt her ACL and lost the whole summer.

She's back this year, and the side-by-side is easy to spot on her fastball. If she turns the ball back stiff-arms you can tell. I will remind her to bend her elbow (the cue we use for I/R, I've never once used the term I/R to her) and the difference in speed will be visible. Instantly. It's worth the trip.

And yes, now she actually has the other pitches. Not all 100% right now, but well on her way. At least you can tell they're supposed to be different pitches, which you couldn't before.

joe720 said:

My DD is the same age, though we do strictly IR, even though her travel coach teaches push.

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One of the worst situations for a pitcher is when she's on a team where the coach sees IR as wrong. It tends puts the pitcher at a disadvantage when she's on a team with such a biased ignorant coach.

I currently have two pitchers who are dealing with this. One is a senior in high school. Because the head coach sees the pull-down-the-back rather than push as WRONG, the senior is benched and the ball-pushing sophomore is lead pitcher.

The other pitcher with this problem is on a 14U competitive team. Her dad has pointed out that his daughter is taking lessons from me and that I teach the "pull-the-ball-down-the-back-side" rather than the "push" method. This coach simply responded, "I know what he teaches and I disagree with it."

I'll just bet you that neither of these two coaches have watch slo-mo clips of the pitchers Java mentioned, and yet, she can so easily disagree with my teaching this method. It's laughable, yet I think it is more common than not across the softball world.

Sad that a coach would allow his personal views affect who is most effective for the team!

diamond14 said:

Sad that a coach would allow his personal views affect who is most effective for the team!

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While there are great coaches out there who effectively contain their biases in this regard, not all are able/willing to do so. If a coach feels that pushing the ball is better, he/she will have the tendency of seeing the mechanics of the pull-ball pitcher as being flaws, thus her "effectiveness" will be affected by the biases of those measuring her "effectiveness."

riseball said:

Have your daughter do a glove snap. Then ask her to do a couple more, really hard. IME what you will see is IR not HE. If you video her you will probably see some IR components already in her motion. Why, because it is the natural way to throw. Even kids who learn with HE end up with IR as they evolve into better pitchers. Some great pitchers like Finch will steadfastly claim they throw with HE and even teach it, but video does not lie. The best in the game throw with IR. So are you trying to build a stud 10U pitcher or someone who will have a chance to become a stud college pitcher?

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I would guess this is correct. If she is doing well she has some IR. Many players that think they are following HE instruction (which they do through the warm up routine) actually pitch full distance with IR. They just don't realize it because they force a HE finish. I have seen it a lot. So to answer your question she will not be a good pitcher unless she throws underhand correctly using IR but she may wind up throwing with IR even if you don't teach her. I wouldn't take the chance. Your steps should be video her in slow mo and compare her to the many videos of successful pitchers in game footage available online. The closer your DD comes to matching their arm pattern...the better she will be.