Back hand/flip change

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Jun 28, 2016
38
0
One of my pitchers is having a really really hard time keeping her hand turned through release. She has it flipped at 9 oclock and then changes it back through release while finishing correctly. Any cue ideas or coaching tips to help her accomplish this? Thanks for your input!
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
Are you set on the flip? IMO--a horseshoe/circle or it's variants are so much easier to learn and control.

Just for experimentation, have her try a three finger/4 seam grip, but use extra pressure with the pinky and thumb, pressing the ball against the middle phalanxes--not the fingertips. Try to push the ball off the thumb and pinky with brush being the trigger. "Pointer finger leads the way" can be a cue. "Brush the back of the thumb" might be another. Look at the spin and adjust by pushing more from the thumb or pinky until you get 12/6 spin. Most seem to get better spin using the pinky, but thumb or both work for others. It's much easier than it sounds and so much easier to control than the flip...
 
Last edited:
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
83
USA
Agree with Ken. Flip is very hard to control in my opinion. Other options out there including Horseshoe and others. Experiment until you find one she is comfortable with and can control.
 
May 5, 2014
93
0
Pacific Northwest
My girls all learned the horseshoe grip first as it was easier to throw. My 13 year old just added a flip change as her horseshoe is more like an off speed pitch, where as she can really take it off on the flip change not sure why this is really. The horseshoe grip comes in at 8-9 MPH off, the flip change comes in at 13-16 MPH off. Being able to throw three speeds has really helped her as a 14U first year pitcher. She has a very nice drop ball and that may be the reason she feels very comfortable rolling the hand over and flipping the ball at finish. When of the things I have learned along this journey is the importance of trying different grips and pitches every so often as you never no when one might just click for them and it seems that every girl is different and progress differently.

Like Doug said a video would be very helpful.
 
Sep 8, 2015
85
18
The pointer finger leading the way can be a cue..

Is this being thrown ball up, pulling down? Or is the pitcher getting behind the ball at 9:00 and trying to get the pointer finger next to the hip at release?

I'm asking because my DD is working on the IR mechanics, but has lost her change up in the process. Her previous change was a circle change, but she has had difficulty taking speed off of it since focusing on IR mechanics.
 
Mar 20, 2015
174
28
This is very similar to how my DD was shown to throw it by a former college pitcher and its very effective. Fist time I have heard anyone else talk about throwing it this way. For DD she keeps her pointer finger off the ball and rolls the ball off with the other fingers. At first she used her pointer finger to point at the target like shooting a pistol to get accuracy. At times she can get really good 12/6 spin on the ball and it helps if she grabs a seam with the middle finger. Going to try tonight with the extra pressure on the pinky and thumb and pressing against the middle phalanxes rather than finger tips to see if she can scrub more speed off.
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
Is this being thrown ball up, pulling down? Or is the pitcher getting behind the ball at 9:00 and trying to get the pointer finger next to the hip at release?

I'm asking because my DD is working on the IR mechanics, but has lost her change up in the process. Her previous change was a circle change, but she has had difficulty taking speed off of it since focusing on IR mechanics.

Start by trying to push with the thumb/pinky then adjust from there. The "pointer finger" or "brush the back of the thumb" cues can help. The goal is generally a 12/6, slower pitch, thrown with good control. Similar to a good horseshoe/circle change. Some end up with a drop curve-ish ball depending on when and how hard they rotate the knuckles forward. Use as few cues as needed to get the result. I think too many folks see the dramatic change in speed from a cue, then have to work extra hard to learn control. Find the best mix of speed AND control using as few cues as possible.

Here is where I stole this from: https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/18165-do-do-3.html#post230916
 
Last edited:

bmd

Jan 9, 2015
301
28
I think it is very typical for a girl that pushes the ball who learns whip/IR to loose their change up. Mine did. I simply told her....do you remember how you use to push the ball....that's a change up. Almost instantly a light bulb moment. boom a change up and fast ball were there. But eventually she learned the flip change because her IR became so natural for her that "just pushing the ball" "felt weird". She tried several change ups and the flip just worked for her.

Is this being thrown ball up, pulling down? Or is the pitcher getting behind the ball at 9:00 and trying to get the pointer finger next to the hip at release?

I'm asking because my DD is working on the IR mechanics, but has lost her change up in the process. Her previous change was a circle change, but she has had difficulty taking speed off of it since focusing on IR mechanics.
 
Apr 17, 2012
806
18
Wi
Go to paulygirlfastpitch.com and buy the change up video for $5. Shell have a decent change up very shortly after. Wish i would have done it sooner
 

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