Core/Hip Stabilization

Hip and core stabilization seems to be a hot topic here lately. My DD has always struggled with stabilizing the landing. I've attributed this to many different things over the few years she has been pitching. Wether it be over striding, landing at 90 degrees or lack of core strength. I personally think it is a combination of all three more or less. However, lack of core strength gets my vote as to why girls do not stabilize well. Before my DD went through a major growth spurt where she grew about 4 inches and gained about 25 pounds in an 8-9 month period, she stabilized pretty well for the most part. Then bam, she grew and put on weight in a relatively short amount of time. Her core strength could not keep up with it. Yes, we probably didn't do as much core work as we could have but still worked on it just the same.

This brings me to my point. When the core development could not keep up with the growth, DD mechanics changed a bit to include the lack of stabilization. Since she still had to perform and throw strikes, the altered mechanics became a part of her muscle memory. So the altered mechanics now became her mechanics. Now that her growth has slowed a bit, we are doing more core work and really focusing on the hips while we practice. It is still a slow go due to school ball (Oklahoma school ball is in the fall) but I have already seen an improvement in her stabilization. However, her "old" mechanics creep back in from time to time (see video below) and reminds her to focus on the hips. Is there a optimal angle for hips to be in at a certain time? Of course. Am I worried about telling her to achieve this optimal angle? Heck no, not a chance. I feel that if the core is strong enough to achieve the optimal hip angle then it will occur without having to conciously do it. If the core is not strong enough to achieve optimal hip angle/stabilization then the body will do what it needs to in order to displace energy to prevent injury.

With all that being said, we can tell a kid to do this or that with their hips and torso but until the core is fully developed and strong, it will always be a struggle and constant battle to find that perfect stabilization we are all wanting.

Below are a couple of game videos of DD. One pitch is where she is stabilizing pretty well and the other is where she does not stabilize. The mechanics look almost identical to me but if some one sees anything that would cause her to stabilize on one and not the other, please let me know!

The first vid is where she stabilizes pretty good. The second vid is where she does not.

[video]https://youtu.be/YDd1Y2NsIv8[/video]

[video]https://youtu.be/D4Q3snpuDVI[/video]

I think part of the result (not sure of the cause) is that she exhibits a 1B side kick to her right foot at the end of the pitch.
To me, it says that her body is compensating for rotational forces that happen upstream in the pitch - a counterbalancing mechanism.

If you watch elite pitchers, they are bearing less % of weight on that drag foot, a much lighter toe-drag, and then don't exhibit that sideways "kick" at the end.
The drag foot does somewhat veer to the 1B-side during the drag, but then just "slides into" re-alignment with the powerline at the end.
No kick.

My DD, working on similar things as yours at the moment: planting more 45d rather than 90d, maintaining hip/shoulder alignment, front-side resistance.
Before concentrating on these aspects this past month, she also had a distinct 1B-side kick. She also would over-rotate shoulders and swim excessively.
In total - too much unnecessary rotational movement. Not enough stability.
She is also a tall, lanky kid, like yours. (13yr old, 5'10" 130lbs)

Other thoughts:
1. You mentioned stride length. I wouldn't mess with it!
She impressively gets out to the edge of the circle, and still gets the foot down nice and early (before 9:00)
Ratcheting that distance back purposefully, I'd be wary of creating new timing issues that do not exist currently.

2. I do see her throwing shoulder rolling through the pitch.
Maybe a re-focus on keeping that shoulder back, a maximizing whip is worthwhile?
That tweak alone might even get her back lower-half back on track.

Just reasoning out-loud.
This stuff is just so damn interconnected. Fix one thing, break another.
Which is why I rely upon obsessive masterminds like Java to guide us.
I should just keep my mouth shut, probably... lol

corlay said:

I think part of the result (not sure of the cause) is that she exhibits a 1B side kick to her right foot at the end of the pitch.
To me, it says that her body is compensating for rotational forces that happen upstream in the pitch - a counterbalancing mechanism.

If you watch elite pitchers, they are bearing less % of weight on that drag foot, a much lighter toe-drag, and then don't exhibit that sideways "kick" at the end.
The drag foot does somewhat veer to the 1B-side during the drag, but then just "slides into" re-alignment with the powerline at the end.
No kick.

My DD, working on similar things as yours at the moment: planting more 45d rather than 90d, maintaining hip/shoulder alignment, front-side resistance.
Before concentrating on these aspects this past month, she also had a distinct 1B-side kick. She also would over-rotate shoulders and swim excessively.
In total - too much unnecessary rotational movement. Not enough stability.
She is also a tall, lanky kid, like yours. (13yr old, 5'10" 130lbs)

Click to expand...

first of all....Boomers- whats up with the portrait clips? Some of us are old and can't see so well.

I can't see what is going on very well in those clips, Lizzie always looks great to me even from a distance.

Corey- I think you and I see a similar thing as a flaw, that first base kick is a telltale sign of bad joo joo. I do think it is compensatory, but I think it is compensating in much the same way a bowler's kick compensates-you have this mass on a rope being swing on one side of the body so the body wants to balance that out. In elite pitchers there is still a squiggle to the 1st base side (for RHP) during the drag like you mention but it ends earlier and realigns to let the leg come through on the right side. The flaw I see is when it keeps going to the 1b side and the drag toe never gets laces up before release. That laces up indicates that the hip closed correctly and on time.

I don't subscribe to the idea that the throwing side hip rotating somewhat closed is a passive move that is caused by the plant and just stabilizing around the plant leg, I think it is an active rotation that starts as resistance to the arm circle's cenrtripetal force and finishes around a firm plant leg. it initiates the pull down phase of the pitch (like the scrunch you see in hitters) from about 10-11 and it initiates the final adduction....it is a turbo boost move to get a head start on that final adduction into I/R move. Without it you can still throw pretty hard, but with it you get that little extra something-something.

JJsqueeze said:

I think it is an active rotation around a firm plant leg that initiates the pull down phase of the pitch (like the scrunch you see in hitters) from about 10-11 and it initiates the final adduction...

Click to expand...

Just a quick comment to ask you to clarify this thought a little - because I think it is a good one.

What is not adding up for me in your description is the
"active rotation around a firm plant leg"
and
"from about 10-11"

knowing most pitchers aren't firming-up and bearing weight upon the plant leg until about 10:00-9:00.

so, do you mean the "hip somethin' somethin'" happens at, or immediately after, when the plant leg bears weight?
or do you mean that it precedes the plant leg bearing weight?

Example: watching the Amanda clip you just put up in the other thread, she for one, gets her plant foot down very early - earlier than most.
with toe-touch around 11:00 and bearing weight 10:00-9:00.
I do see the hip beginning to rotate, just after toe-touch, and definitely *before* she has enough weight on that front leg to resist anything.

This may be where the advantage of core-strength really comes into play?
Amanda is getting her hips going *before* she has anything to resist and rotate around?
Just a thought...

corlay said:

Just a quick comment to ask you to clarify this thought a little - becasue I think it is a good one.

What is not adding up for me in your description is the
"active rotation around a firm plant leg"
and
"from about 10-11"

knowing most pitchers aren't firming-up and bearing weight upon the plant leg until about 10:00-9:00.

so, do you mean the "hip somethin' somethin'" happens at, or immediately after, when the plant leg bears weight?
or do you mean that it precedes the plant leg bearing weight?

Example: watching the Amanda clip you just put up in the other thread, she for one, gets her plant foot down very early - earlier than most.
with toe-touch around 11:00 and bearing weight 10:00-9:00.
I do see the hip beginning to rotate, just after toe-touch, and definitely *before* she has enough weight on that front leg to resist anything.

This may be where the advantage of core-strength really comes into play?
Amanda is getting her hips going *before* she has anything to resist and rotate around?
Just a thought...

Click to expand...

ahhh....that question really leads to what I am seeing. There is a force to resist prior to the plant foot bearing weight...the centripetal force of the arm flying around in a circle. I think the hip closure starts as a resistance to the arm circle just before full plant. and finishes as a resistance to the ground. So think from toe touch to heelplant, somewhere in there. The resistance to the arm circle is the hula hoop feel, the resistance to the ground that immediately follows is what I think most others key on. My point is that there is another power adder here that I don't see discussed-I think it is active and is not just stabilization to allow ground force energy transfer up the chain. It is distinct and present in all high level pitchers. Not to cross thread too much but that is my best answer to your point.

JJsqueeze said:

first of all....Boomers- whats up with the portrait clips? Some of us are old and can't see so well.

I can't see what is going on very well in those clips, Lizzie always looks great to me even from a distance.

Corey- I think you and I see a similar thing as a flaw, that first base kick is a telltale sign of bad joo joo. I do think it is compensatory, but I think it is compensating in much the same way a bowler's kick compensates-you have this mass on a rope being swing on one side of the body so the body wants to balance that out. In elite pitchers there is still a squiggle to the 1st base side (for RHP) during the drag like you mention but it ends earlier and realigns to let the leg come through on the right side. The flaw I see is when it keeps going to the 1b side and the drag toe never gets laces up before release. That laces up indicates that the hip closed correctly and on time.

I don't subscribe to the idea that the throwing side hip rotating somewhat closed is a passive move that is caused by the plant and just stabilizing around the plant leg, I think it is an active rotation around a firm plant leg that initiates the pull down phase of the pitch (like the scrunch you see in hitters) from about 10-11 and it initiates the final adduction....it is a turbo boost move to get a head start on that final adduction into I/R move. Without it you can still throw pretty hard, but with it you get that little extra something-something.

Click to expand...

Sorry JJ, Im not tech savvy enough to zoom it through you tube. I can do it through the app i use (Technique/Ubersense) but when i transfer it to You Tube it somehow reverts it back to original size. Let me me try to mess with it. Hopefully I can figure it out.

corlay said:

If you watch elite pitchers, they are bearing less % of weight on that drag foot, a much lighter toe-drag, and then don't exhibit that sideways "kick" at the end.
The drag foot does somewhat veer to the 1B-side during the drag, but then just "slides into" re-alignment with the powerline at the end.
No kick.

Click to expand...

I totally understand what you are saying as it pertains to the drag foot and wished we could fix it. DD is anchoring that foot and has for a while now. I am not sure why and am not sure how to tell her to fix it. When that foot gets stuck, it seems it is impossible for her to bring her hips through because without the foot coming through, the hips will not come through. Without the hips coming through she cannot stabilize correctly. So basically, get the drag foot fixed then that would help with the stabilization. Seems easy enough but how do you fix the drag foot?? A never ending cycle! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Boomers2012 said:

I totally understand what you are saying as it pertains to the drag foot and wished we could fix it. DD is anchoring that foot and has for a while now. I am not sure why and am not sure how to tell her to fix it. When that foot gets stuck, it seems it is impossible for her to bring her hips through because without the foot coming through, the hips will not come through. Without the hips coming through she cannot stabilize correctly. So basically, get the drag foot fixed then that would help with the stabilization. Seems easy enough but how do you fix the drag foot?? A never ending cycle! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Click to expand...

I have been noticing this a lot lately as well. While it's hard to see the video, ideally we want laces to catcher but that easier said than done. I would have her start by just trying to keep her heel off the ground once she does that things will turn more naturally.

Have her try this so she can feel the difference stand just like she would at foot plant fairly spread out front foot 45 degrees with back heel on ground, now have her pick her heel up of the ground, she should be able to feel her hip release. Now she knows what it is supposed to feel like. Have her then just do some drill from 9 oclock then 12 oclock where she tries to focus on keep heel off the ground and not dragging it, again she does not need to think about hips or rotating all that stuff will happen much more naturally without the heel touching...see if it helps...Good Luck

Boomers2012 said:

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

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We've been working it slow.
I really think it's essentially a multiple and correct, repetition thing - until it becomes natural.

Really hard to address during season, unfortunately.

We put it off until the beginning of August where we knew she would have a good solid month or longer of no games to work on these things.
Lots of walk-throughs into a bow-net.
Once she got going on it, she would throw 80 or so pitches 2x per day, 5x a week - mostly on her own.
It takes a l o n g time to take hold.
Here we are 6 weeks later and it's still not "natural" for her yet.

BUT I will say, getting that laces-forward toe-tip drag, combined with a good plant foot angle, has really helped so many other aspects of her pitch,
especially with respect to overall posture, and throwing arm proximity. She still has a ways to go, but is showing more and more improvement weekly.

djcarter1966 said:

I would have her start by just trying to keep her heel off the ground once she does that things will turn more naturally.

Click to expand...

this is great advice.