Advice on next pitch to learn

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May 5, 2014
93
0
Pacific Northwest
DD#2 is moving up to 14U this year, she turns 13 soon. We are heading into the off season and its time to start thinking about what we want to work on. I love this time of year as we can try new things. We have been messing around with a 2 seam fastball some but her pitching instructor wasn't to excited about it.

She currently throws:

4 seam fastball with good IR it runs 51-53MPH with pretty good control.
Good drop ball, not great but generates a ton of ground ball outs. Sometimes she can really feel it and those games are a ton of fun to watch.
Horseshoe/handshake change up with good control however it is only about 9-10 MPH slower most of the time she just can't seem to figure out how to get it 2-3 mph slower. She sells it very well and has a ton of success with it.
Working on a riseball, but it is currently used primarly as a waste/setup pitch.

When we asked her pitching coach about adding a new pitch in the off season she suggested a backdoor change up. We worked on it last night she picked it up very fast and it is 15-17 MPH slower than her fastball. She suggested we might want to think of her horseshoe change as an off speed pitch and the backdoor change up as her true change up. I would have never considered this but the idea of having an off speed and a much slower change up is interesting. Her horseshoe change doesn't normally fall off the table at the plate it only works because she sells, however the backdoor change up just falls off the table hits the back of the plate kind of a pitch. My question is, is it common to have two different change ups? I'm also wondering what is the best way to use them, would you ever throw them together, meaning throw the off speed pitch and then the change up next or vice versa. Any thoughts or advise on how to leverage them is much appreciated.

My concern is putting time into a pitch that might not be used that much. Her other suggestion was to pick up a curve, we have tried it but haven't had a ton of luck.
 
Jan 4, 2012
3,852
38
OH-IO
Give this curve a try... :cool: Heck... I would click on the "watch on You-Tube" subscribe, and watch all the rest of the clips.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FznEpbmWlzQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Last edited:
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
Mine just started working on the curve and I love love love watching her throw that pitch. Or even catching for her, which normally I don't like, but to see it move is just really neat. So I agree w/ that recommendation just for your own, "Wow, look at that" enjoyment. :D
 
Nov 16, 2015
184
18
I love the coffee mug in his glove hand. In other videos, he's wearing Khakis. That's just great
 
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
To the OP:

I'm not a big fan of the screwball and curve because I just don't think the vast majority of pitchers get enough movement on these pitches to be effective and when they do, it's east/west not north/south movement. The one thing that has always resonated with me is when Hillhouse says you only need 3 pitches: drop, riseball, and change-up (i.e. pitches that work vertically and on two planes). I think there is wisdom in this approach.

To your other point, I believe it's important to have three speeds: 1) the fastest pitch; 2) off-speed and 3) change-up. FWIW - 14YO DD has been working on putting a knuckle on her dropball and curveball to make it 5 - 7 mph slower than fastball which is low to mid 50's. Her modified flip change is around 40 (which is a little too slow in my opinion). I say "modified" because its not a pure backspin flip change, but instead she put some side spin on it so it moves down and away from a RHB.

With that said, your DD is still young enough to experiment with other pitches. Maybe she has an awesome curve ball in her that is waiting to get out and show itself? How would you/she know if she never tries to throw it?
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
My DD learned the flip change first. Her fastball is low to mid 40s, her flip change is around 28. She just learned a horseshoe change and she seems to have better command of that one and she also hides it better; her flip you can tell is coming if you watch her pitch for a little while. I haven't clocked the horseshoe but it's somewhere in the middle, I'm guessing more like 35. Seems like having 2 change ups might be useful? It is in 10U anyway, not sure if that's still the case at older levels.
 
Dec 8, 2015
249
18
Philadelphia, PA
My DD learned the flip change first. Her fastball is low to mid 40s, her flip change is around 28. She just learned a horseshoe change and she seems to have better command of that one and she also hides it better; her flip you can tell is coming if you watch her pitch for a little while. I haven't clocked the horseshoe but it's somewhere in the middle, I'm guessing more like 35. Seems like having 2 change ups might be useful? It is in 10U anyway, not sure if that's still the case at older levels.

My experience with 10u is that most hitters can't hit a CU, even if it is poorly thrown and totally obvious.
 
Nov 16, 2015
184
18
To the OP:

I'm not a big fan of the screwball and curve because I just don't think the vast majority of pitchers get enough movement on these pitches to be effective and when they do, it's east/west not north/south movement. The one thing that has always resonated with me is when Hillhouse says you only need 3 pitches: drop, riseball, and change-up (i.e. pitches that work vertically and on two planes). I think there is wisdom in this approach.

This is the men's game to a T. Up, down, change. I agree with it and my DD's are working on this same philosophy. In the men's game they throw we call a 'low lifter' its basically a curve ball. So yes, 3 pitches but definitely they have variations off those 3 main pitches. For example, when thrown correctly, the drop and the rise are not in the strike zone. They are balls. At some point the ball will have to come into the strike zone. pitchers are making adjustments to the rise and the drop
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
My experience with 10u is that most hitters can't hit a CU, even if it is poorly thrown and totally obvious.

This is definitely true. The OP is about 14U though. I was wondering if having a really slow CU and a moderately slow CU might be useful. I have no idea, it was just a thought.
 

SB45

Dad, Coach, Chauffeur
Sep 2, 2016
150
28
Western NY
I don't get the hesitation with trying 2 seam fastballs. It is a pitch you already throw with a different grip, not a different release, you don't bury it in your palm. Just turn the ball around in your hand and do the same thing you normally would. I would suggest you try that immediately, as I see no down side whatsoever. Doesn't work for everyone though. I think you have to spin the ball fairly well and throw fairly hard 50+. My daughter is young and throws the 2seam just for variety, but it doesn't do anything. I showed a 2 seam fastball to an older girl whose pitching coach was not a believer...first pitch hit me in the wrist, I could hardly get the glove on it. It's not earth shattering and some say movement is an optical illusion...but I'm pretty sure we need to use our eyes to hit the ball...so if our eyes see movement, optical illusion or not, it's moving. I think a curve can be useful...but you can't have a baseball mindset about it. A baseball curve is generally off-speed and it drops, in addition to curving. A softball curve doesn't generally change planes (drop), nor is it really off speed...so throw it in the strike zone and it is very hittable, even if it curves a couple inches. To me you can only do 2 things with a curve...throw it on the inside edge, throw it on the outside edge. A good curve is useful and worth working on...but a weak curve is either a ball or worse...a meatball. Keep throwing the rise..my understanding is she may not throw hard enough yet for it to be effective...but if she's like most, I'm sure you laughed out loud at a lot of the early changeups that didn't go 20 feet.
 

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