Overuse

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Nov 6, 2013
771
16
Baja, AZ
Just read that an ESPN writer has been critical this year of Arizona's baseball coaches for overusing their pitcher's arms. Here's a link:

Arizona Wildcats baseball slammed over pitchers use

Seems like the conventional Little League argument. One pitcher threw 122 pitches yesterday and another pitcher threw 108 (or something like that) in the first game of the CWS. Arizona responds (questionably, from my point of view) that their pitchers nap more and it eases the physiologic strain (or something like that - I never heard that one).

In any case, there HAD to be a handful of young women in the NCAA post-season and WCWS that threw way more than that. I've read a couple papers where biomechanics gurus said there essentially is little, if any, difference between the strain on the shoulder/arm in delivering an overhand baseball pitch or windmill fastpitch.

Wonder what this sports writer would say if he knew the pitch counts in the Championship series a few years back between Traina and Ricketts. Or the Arizona series a couple years back when Pinon threw 208 or 212 or 220 or whatever it was and pitched a game a couple days prior or after. Or maybe I'm ignorant to something and completely out of line for thinking college men and college women pitch counts can be directly compared....

Whatchya all think?
 
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
0
In any case, there HAD to be a handful of young women in the NCAA post-season and WCWS that threw way more than that. I've read a couple papers where biomechanics gurus said there essentially is little, if any, difference between the strain on the shoulder/arm in delivering an overhand baseball pitch or windmill fastpitch.
Those so-called "gurus" aren't making the right measurement(s).

- My son was a baseball pitcher thru HS and there's no way the guys could pitch as much as the girls routinely do without having major soreness afterward. That said, many girls shouldn't throw as much as they do because it often catches up to them later. Lack of discomfort doesn't mean it's okay.

- Pictures of baseball pitchers with their arm contorted behind them mid-delivery show way more stress than anything I've ever seen in a windmill delivery.

C.Sale%u00252BArm%u00252BSlot.jpg

- A lot of the overhand stress on the shoulder is stopping the arm after the ball is released because the release point is farther in front of the body and the arm has a lot of momentum in that direction.
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
On my DD's baseball team we had a boy who ended up with a growth plate injury, surgery, and never pitching again thanks to overuse. The regular scorekeeper was gone and nobody was keeping track, I believe. He did throw a lot of pitches but it was one game (though I'm sure there was build-up to this and one game did not cause it alone considering how bad it was). So yeah, to me it seems like the way the girls pitch in softball does allow for more overall pitches to be thrown. We like to cap ours around 2 games (though it depends on how the games go, too as far as how many pitches she had to throw). That said I don't think for a second that softball pitching is so natural there's no risk. When I see a team with a 9, 10, 11 year old stud pitcher they leave in for 4+ games in a weekend I definitely wonder why they are not considering the long term. If not her coaches then at least her parents.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
The overuse problem is one reason why my DD 3 changed teams.
She went from a team where she was the only starting pitcher to a team where she is one of two starters. Last weekend the other starter was injured, but that is an unusual case.

Sometimes I get annoyed at DD 3 for not practicing enough, but maybe her arm will last longer that way.
 

ArmyStrong

Going broke on softball
Sep 14, 2014
87
8
Pacific NW
I know of two teams that went deep into Sunday at the Valley Invite with essentially one pitcher. We're talking 5-6 games straight. That's after pitching 3 pool games on Saturday. My thoughts went quickly from amazed to concerned in a split second.
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,581
83
NorCal
Seems like the conventional Little League argument. One pitcher threw 122 pitches yesterday and another pitcher threw 108 (or something like that) in the first game of the CWS. Arizona responds (questionably, from my point of view) that their pitchers nap more and it eases the physiologic strain (or something like that - I never heard that one).
Doesn't sound like too much. Pitchers threw way more often and way more pitches in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. I don't think the # of pitches thrown is as critical as the the fact that these days many kids/young men are on YEAR ROUND baseball pitching throwing programs without allowing the arm time to rest.

That said I'm not a doctor nor did I sleep at a Holiday Day Inn so what do I know.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
Doesn't sound like too much. Pitchers threw way more often and way more pitches in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. I don't think the # of pitches thrown is as critical as the the fact that these days many kids/young men are on YEAR ROUND baseball pitching throwing programs without allowing the arm time to rest.

That said I'm not a doctor nor did I sleep at a Holiday Day Inn so what do I know.

There was some research recently done by U of Wisconsin, looking at athletes in Wisconsin who played sports all year round. They divided into two groups:

Group A played the same sport all year.
Group B played the same sport 8 months or less of the year, and other sports during the down time.

Group A had a significantly higher injury rate.
 
Dec 23, 2009
791
0
San Diego
There was some research recently done by U of Wisconsin, looking at athletes in Wisconsin who played sports all year round. They divided into two groups:

Group A played the same sport all year.
Group B played the same sport 8 months or less of the year, and other sports during the down time.

Group A had a significantly higher injury rate.

Just a guess but proper mechanics (or lack of) and common sense rest (or lack of) had to have something to do with the results of the study.
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,581
83
NorCal
Just a guess but proper mechanics (or lack of) and common sense rest (or lack of) had to have something to do with the results of the study.

IDK, it seems like a catch-22. To be the "best baseball pitcher" and get noticed you need to throw...A LOT. But if you throw...A LOT even with proper mechanics I'm guessing the risk of injury goes way up.
 
Jun 19, 2013
753
28
My DS pitches in HS and when he throws 90+ pitches his arm is wiped. He is sore and arm is tired and is glad that he can't pitch the following day. He has a great pitching coach and I have no concern that there is a problem with his mechanics it just seems to be a difference in style in my opinion. Completely different from by DD. I haven't counted but I would guess that last tourney weekend we are talking about 400 pitches between 2 full games, 3 partial games and warm up pitches. Heck it could be 600.
 

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