Hips open or closed?

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Oct 6, 2015
55
8
Hey all,
Let me start again with giant THANK YOU for all you do on here. I can't tell you what an aid it has been for me and DD this winter. Anyway, my question is in relation to the hips. There are some active threads on this forum right now touching on it. I have also read a lot of previous threads that discuss it. It seems like there is a difference in belief about whether the hips should be open on release or at a 45'-ish angle.
A great many of the model pitchers posted are completely open on release and seem to make slight BI contact in front of the hip, just at the belly. Then a lot of them like Ueno are practically closed at the point of BI.
I very recently read a post where someone's PC suggested to have the hips more closed on release and the response was, "he's an idiot". Haha.
The main reason I ask is because I am working on this with my DD now and I don't want to go back to her in 2 weeks and say that classic line, "Remember what I told you to do 2 weeks ago? Stop doing that."

Thanks.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
My $0.02....If you take the top 10 pitchers and analyze their mechanics no two will be exactly the same. I personally think to maximize velocity the hips should close during the follow through. Different pitches can also vary when the hips should close, so be careful when analyzing video as sometimes it is hard to tell what pitch the pitcher is throwing.
 
May 12, 2008
2,214
0
Yes it is somewhat pitch dependent.

Try not to think in terms of position but rather function. Have the hips passed on their energy to the torso? That's more important than their exact position.

Windmill
Finch doesn't close as much but she certainly passes the hip energy along to the torso.
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
The hips follow the angle of the front foot.... Ideally we like to see approximately 45deg, as this aids in the arms ability to make the brush contact.... Hips left completely open makes it VERY difficult to brush. The other point to be made here is if the front foot is too straight and points towards the catcher, she'll most likely strike her heel as the front foot lands, this causes a violent jolt up into the back... Asking for problems there. Although Abbott does this, and she's the fastest in the world... Odds are 99.9% of our daughters will never be the next Abbot. So open up, land at a 45 deg angle, snap the hip partially, get the drag foot on its tip toes no later than 9:00, ensure good brush contact on a very strong resisting front leg....and you'll be on the right path from there
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,401
63
Northeast Ohio
Yes it is somewhat pitch dependent.

Try not to think in terms of position but rather function. Have the hips passed on their energy to the torso? That's more important than their exact position.

Windmill
Finch doesn't close as much but she certainly passes the hip energy along to the torso.

This seems to be what I see as well. The other thing I think it is important to notice is the shoulders and their relationship to the hips. Like in hitting are the hips closing/turning (no matter how slight) leading the shoulder or is the pitcher turning the shoulders with or around the hips. The stretch/offset of shoulders and hips seems to create speed and a good position for brush resistance. The rear shoulder being quiet and allowing the arm to work down vs. around seems to be something I see from the excellent pitchers.
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
Could you post a few clips of the model pitchers who are completely open on release?

D, the only one I can think from the Model Pitchers Thread is Baylor's Whitney Canion.


Whitney Canion's Riseball:

116rt6v.gif




I like these FFS images of the hips and core torque:


I also like these Rick Pauly images:

core_torque_zps4ggakvwq.gif
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Michelle Smith commonly quotes a range from 45-52 degrees while serving as a color commentator, and often she will reference her source as the Steadman-Hawkins study.

If you actually look at the Steadman-Hawkins report you will find that there was a low percentage of pitchers that realized that range at release.

While a 52-deg hip angle at release was considered the 'average' from the Steadman-Hawkins report, what should also be noted is that only about 20% of the pitchers were close to this value (see 'red' arrows below). The hip angle at release ranged from 18-deg to 87-deg.

vpi9z4.jpg


In the Steadman-Hawkins study the hip angle at release ranged from 18-to-87 degrees, with the average being 52-degrees.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
The ‘average pitcher’ in the Steadman-Hawkins study did not fall within the range of a 45-52 degree hip angle. Roughly 80% of the pitchers were outside of this range.

The distribution was wide.

The low was 18-degrees. The high was 87-degrees.

Nobody would think to average just the two extreme values, 18 & 87, and then state that one should have a hip angle of 52.5-degrees (which is the average of 18 & 87). That would be silly.

Hmm … pitcher ‘A’ has a hip release angle of 18-degrees and pitcher ‘B’ has a hip release angle of 87-degrees … so let’s take the average and target everyone for 52.5-degrees. That would be a questionable analysis … and when you draw conclusions from such a wide distribution you end up doing something similar.

I’m not saying that having a 45-degree to 52-degree hip angle at release is a bad goal … I’m merely suggesting that the common source quoted for coming up with the hip-range value at release is not a solid source … IMO.
 
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