Hips open or closed?

STRIKE3 said:

That's a great way to say it Coach James and your definition of what is happening is right on IMO. I think the question you posed and I pose as well is if it is deliberate or just a result. Maybe the stop is more deliberate than the snap. Maybe not but when I look at some of the elite their hips/core/leg adduction seem to be doing something deliberate compared to others.

Thanks for your input as always!

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I believe that is 100% accurate!!!

coach james said:

Does anyone believe it's an actual deliberate hip snap, or is it simply a result of the front hips ball of the femur sinking deep into the socket and then acting as a pivot point during resistance, and what we're seeing is actually the hear hip rotating around the front axis a bit?

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Result IMO, I see everything turning against (into) that firm front leg. How far it turns depends on the angle of the front foot.

all right, please 'splain this Lucy. I distinctly remember at the IN clinic several years ago, and reading it somewhere here, that the 4 points, shoulders and pelvic, should be stable and facing 45 or so on release. Now I see shakers pics and she (Pauly, I believe), is pretty well closed on release. and, I'm reading here about hip snap. I teaching the stable 4 points and throwing across the belly. should I not be teaching this?

cvsoftball said:

all right, please 'splain this Lucy. I distinctly remember at the IN clinic several years ago, and reading it somewhere here, that the 4 points, shoulders and pelvic, should be stable and facing 45 or so on release. Now I see shakers pics and she (Pauly, I believe), is pretty well closed on release. and, I'm reading here about hip snap. I teaching the stable 4 points and throwing across the belly. should I not be teaching this?

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Your correct. Look closer, her hips are 45ish, shoulders maybe a tad more. Stand and take the same pos as Sarah, maybe beside a wall for reference, you'll be close to 45.

I was at the IN Clinic too....
The pic of Sara is locked in at 45-50 degrees... The angle of the photo is what makes it deceptive and appears to be over rotated.

coach james said:

I believe that is 100% accurate!!!

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After a few weeks of heavy focus on this I am falling into your camp Coach James. See next post.

STRIKE3 said:

Cat's hips are violent! The stop of them is crazy like the girl above.

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Pitching is so much fun! I am surprised I actually still have a little bit of hair, although not alot..... So I revisited this thread to speak about Core Torque and Hip Snap. Rick posted some great things on this and I believe he is right on the money. But sometimes, many times for me, I see the dress as blue/black when it is white/gold.. See link for clarification on this

Science of the blue and black white and gold optical illusion dress - Business Insider

Anyway, I think many here, or at least I hope a few are in my camp of seeing one thing that is actually another. Pitcher is doing A but in reality B is why A is happening.....

In the example of Cat above, you can absolutely make a visual argument that she has incredible hip/core torque, hip snap, etc. Just watch thru a time or two and focus on her hips.

Now, focus on leg adduction, turn the laces, etc. etc. and watch a couple times. IMO, you can make an argument that it is the leg adduction that causes the hips to hip snap, then stop. Exactly as Coach James has said and I have been digesting for a few weeks. To add to the scenario, you can (or at least I have) do both and they look exactly the same. I can focus on a hip snap/stop and I look the same. I can then turn laces to catcher like Shaker's post of Ueno and above of Cat and adduct strongly and I look the same.

Anyway, after a few weeks of more scuff marks on the hardwoods, DW telling me to stop messing up her floors, etc. etc. I am seeing the strong leg adduction as more of the "missing component" versus the conscious hip/core snap. Thanks again for the comments and thoughts and I will likely change my mind in a couple of weeks

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. . . . Don’t forget the arms.

More great info and videos to solidify the concept of what is happening here. We've had DD working on adduction (arms and legs) for a while now searching for that perfect combo of mechanics, timing, speed, whip and consistency. Been trying out many of the cues that have been offered (crack the nut, knee to knee, lead with the elbow, laces to the catcher, etc..) and overall DD has been making good progress. My question here is one about what I believe Rick P has brought up about there being a slight pause in the hips that allows brush to happen after the initial hip snap/rear leg adduction and before the follow through of the hip motion. How can that be possible with the "violent" movement that must occur to get to that perfect spot and then restart to finish all in less than a blink of the eye? Elite athletes only? Any further thoughts or ideas with this?

Extension opens the body. Adduction closes the body. At plant the body resists every bit of forward and rotational motion to transfer energy to the whip. After the job is done any residual energy is released into follow through:


(I think we see more shoulder action in this pitch because it's a palm up curve. When she throws a rise, I see her resisting more with the shoulder.)