Rise Ball and IR

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Feb 24, 2013
32
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Sorry as I am sure this has been discussed but I could not find it after about 15 minutes of searching. I am wondering how the heck to get riseball spin with IR. Are they not opposites?
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
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safe in an undisclosed location
They are not opposites, in fact a riseball is impossible without I/R. What do you envision the hand is going when it pitches a riseball and what do you envision good riseball spin to be?

I envision the fingers cutting down the back of the ball and across the underside, with the fingers imparting a cutting action that creates spin. I do not envison the commonly taught idea of a doorknob being turned. So my concept really removes the thumb and is a finger dominated cutting action. When I think of the spin it is not perfect backspin, it is 6-12 spin but wit the axis about halfway between perfect backspin and full bullet spin.
 
Jun 18, 2012
3,183
48
Utah
Sorry as I am sure this has been discussed but I could not find it after about 15 minutes of searching. I am wondering how the heck to get riseball spin with IR. Are they not opposites?

I believe the main reason the few pitchers I work with prefer throwing with back spin, though not perfect riseball spin, is because they learned IR early on. I would argue that learning IR makes it easier to throw a riseball or riseball-like pitch.
 
Feb 24, 2013
32
8
I think I get it but what confuses me is how IR finishes with the palm down, which associates to more of an over the top drop ball spin, no?
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
Depends on what you mean by finish. finish to me is the first movement after release....not where the hand ends up once the ball is halfway to home plate. Look at the divine miss P in this clip. At the beginning you see the entire motion and the hand winds up palm down. But immediately after release it is still palm up.

 
Last edited:
Jun 19, 2013
753
28
My DD does not end up palm down after her rise ball, she often ends up with her palm at probably forehead level or higher, almost what you'd picture for hello elbow. It looks as if she is pointing at the batter initially after release and the force takes the arm up all the way to what most would think is a great H/E finish. Her rise generally had a good tilted back spin like what JJ described above.
 
Feb 24, 2013
32
8
Thanks JJ, I'm starting to get it. I am trying it myself though and in full speed it seems the rise ball with IR mechanics will be a wicked tough sequence on the wrist.
 
Feb 24, 2013
32
8
Just read 2020, that seems like the way I will teach my daughter. Just seems to tough to throw a rise ball and end up Palm down.
 
Apr 12, 2015
792
93
My DD does not end up palm down after her rise ball, she often ends up with her palm at probably forehead level or higher, almost what you'd picture for hello elbow. It looks as if she is pointing at the batter initially after release and the force takes the arm up all the way to what most would think is a great H/E finish. Her rise generally had a good tilted back spin like what JJ described above.

My DD can't throw an effective rise ball yet as she's only 10 and lacks the RPS and velocity to make it work. But we do work on it, mainly because I believe the rise ball action helps with developing the whip.

Anyway, her finish is basically the same as you describe, only her fingers are shaped kind of like a gun. I keep telling her to drop her index finger and extend the middle finger and she'll be perfect, but she just looks at me like I'm dumb.

Sigh.

Long story short (yeah, too late, I know), I think the mistake the OP is making is in assuming that IR is limited to the hand turning over and a palm down finish. IR is actually a range of kinetic motion that starts at about the 12:00 position. As JJ said, it is impossible to throw a rise without utilizing IR movements.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
Thanks JJ, I'm starting to get it. I am trying it myself though and in full speed it seems the rise ball with IR mechanics will be a wicked tough sequence on the wrist.

Can you describe the motion you are comparing it to? There really are not that many options, either the hand is outside, on top of, inside or under a ball at release or some combination of adjacent positions. Outside and on top are NON I/R positions, under and inside are I/R positions. I can't even imagine how you would get any semblance of backspin if you were on top of, or outside of, the ball.
 

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