- Aug 21, 2008
- 2,385
- 113
Ok, I'm in Dallas doing lessons. I can't sleep and I've done all my regular things and still am wide awake so I came on here to see what's up. I read the "backdoor curve" thread. OMG... I may never sleep again. I'm about to jump out of my skin. I'm about to go all Donald Trump on everyone and speak without any political correctness. EXIT now if you don't want to hear it.
Back door, front door, screen door, outhouse door, kitchen cabinet door, hotel room door..... why the hell would anyone intentionally put a ball over the plate? I do understand that if the umpire isn't calling certain pitches then change is necessary. But this is where the art of a fantastic catcher comes in. At the beginning of the game to say to the ump during warm ups... stay close, we stay on corners. The catcher can also tap the umpire's foot when throwing a tricky pitch like a low rise which is known to fool a lot of umpires who think it's going to drop out of the zone when it stays (or comes up) into the bottom of the zone.
"Crop" is a load of crap. If I want a drop on the outside, I'm going to throw a drop on the outside. I'm not going to get cute and try to be fancy so I can say I have 8 pitches. NO YOU DON'T... the world's best only have 3. So, you have almost triple the pitches they have? WOW. Rick Pauly should be banging on your door for Georgia.. or Mike White will be racing there first for Oregon.... Why take a chance on the ball not doing what you want it to with a CRAP, I mean Crop. If I throw a drop outside and it doesn't drop, at least it's outside, presumably on the corner. And if on the right trajectory of being low, not a lot can be done with a low outside pitch. But when pitchers get fancy and they think they can throw a crop or a rising screwball or whatever... disaster happens when you play good hitters. Because if that pitch doesn't make those 2 movements.... it's hung over the plate. BANG.
Curveball, screwball... for the life of me I cannot understand why people want to throw a ball on the same plane as the bat that's being swung. But because ESPN announcers say "this girl has a great screwball" people believe it. Personally, I think 1/2 of these ESPN announcers write for the tabloids and make things up. They could honestly tell you that Bigfoot married Britanny Spears and because it's on ESPN Softball, it becomes rule of law. "Smitty's tips"... 1. stay ahead in the count (gee, thanks. I planned on pitching behind every hitter). 2. Mix the speeds (whew... what a relief. I was going just throw as hard as I can for all 7 innings and hope they can't hit a straight pitch). 3. Pitch to their weakness (wow... I would've NEVER thought of that!!) I am fairly certain SMITTY has it in her ESPN contract that her name cannot be said without saying 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist first. But those tips are the same for every pitcher, a thesaurus is used to find new words in the descriptions.
Here is why "curveballs and screwballs" seem effective at the young ages... because kids are scared of the ball and don't swing. Umpires are crappy at young age tournaments and a lot of balls are called strikes. So, it gives false hope that you have a screwball when all the girl did was jump out of the box. And when they're older, and they throw a "screwball".... first of all 9/10 times it's an inside pitch. And the other 1 time, its the girl giving the illusion of it screwballing by stepping left and throwing way right. And the curveball? sure, sometimes it works. You can catch someone off guard or get them fishing outside for it. But I would never throw it over the plate... anywhere. Why? IT STAYS FLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wanna throw a curve? Learn a rise first. If you can spin a ball backward necessary for the rise, you can spin it sideways for a curve. Then you can combine them for a rising curve. But learning the curve first can really hurt a pitchers' ability to learn a rise. Most curveballs are taught using a turning or twisting of the wrist. And the wrist is a the riseball killer... it's what makes a pitcher get bullet spin. A rise is done by a STRONG elbow whip so the wrist and fingers follow. NOT THE WRIST. The wrist follows the elbow in the kinetic chain of movements.
Most of you know, I played fastpitch my entire life. What you see in softball on TV is a bastardized version of what was played by the world's best when the game started. I'm glad the sport is popular and on TV, and will be in the Olympics again. But, so many young pitchers are RUINED by coaches who buy into BS of needing 8 pitches like a "backdoor screw". If Rick Pauly would've agreed to that, I would've swallowed the Red Pill, entered the Matrix and gone through my computer to choke him. (I can't remember if the Matrix was with the red or blue pill but I said red so nobody got the wrong idea.. get it... blue pill?)
I put my students (and parents) in the most extreme situation.... if facing Crystl Bustos... do want the ball to stay level with Screwball, curveball or fatball (fastball) or do you want it moving up and down? It's a pretty easy answer when you think like that. You can't get drunk on the success of a 12 year old who claims to have 8 pitches and, of course, throws 63 mph. Those girls are a dime a dozen. You cannot believe that success at 12 is landing you a scholarship. It's not. And, as someone who knows A LOT of D1 college coaches, they look for the 3 main pitches: Rise, Drop and change. If a coach asks for a crap (crop) throw a drop outside and if he/she is impressed then they likely don't have a clue about pitching.
This forum has a lot of good info on it. It also has info I wouldn't dream of telling or teaching a kid. As parents and coaches you guys have the unenviable job of figuring out which is good and which isn't. Common sense should be your first guide: ask yourself why your PC is trying to teach 8 pitches when the best coaches in the world were all on stage (we need to find that clip on Youtube: White, Candrea and Eriksen) telling you that pitchers only need 3: Rise, drop and change. Success at 12 yrs old doesn't mean success at 16.... and in addition to that regression in progress often comes with injury, sore arm, and getting hammered by good teams. Sorry, I just can't imagine a 15 year old ever being sore in mid season. But what do I know? It's not like I was pitching at 15... oh wait....
Bill
Back door, front door, screen door, outhouse door, kitchen cabinet door, hotel room door..... why the hell would anyone intentionally put a ball over the plate? I do understand that if the umpire isn't calling certain pitches then change is necessary. But this is where the art of a fantastic catcher comes in. At the beginning of the game to say to the ump during warm ups... stay close, we stay on corners. The catcher can also tap the umpire's foot when throwing a tricky pitch like a low rise which is known to fool a lot of umpires who think it's going to drop out of the zone when it stays (or comes up) into the bottom of the zone.
"Crop" is a load of crap. If I want a drop on the outside, I'm going to throw a drop on the outside. I'm not going to get cute and try to be fancy so I can say I have 8 pitches. NO YOU DON'T... the world's best only have 3. So, you have almost triple the pitches they have? WOW. Rick Pauly should be banging on your door for Georgia.. or Mike White will be racing there first for Oregon.... Why take a chance on the ball not doing what you want it to with a CRAP, I mean Crop. If I throw a drop outside and it doesn't drop, at least it's outside, presumably on the corner. And if on the right trajectory of being low, not a lot can be done with a low outside pitch. But when pitchers get fancy and they think they can throw a crop or a rising screwball or whatever... disaster happens when you play good hitters. Because if that pitch doesn't make those 2 movements.... it's hung over the plate. BANG.
Curveball, screwball... for the life of me I cannot understand why people want to throw a ball on the same plane as the bat that's being swung. But because ESPN announcers say "this girl has a great screwball" people believe it. Personally, I think 1/2 of these ESPN announcers write for the tabloids and make things up. They could honestly tell you that Bigfoot married Britanny Spears and because it's on ESPN Softball, it becomes rule of law. "Smitty's tips"... 1. stay ahead in the count (gee, thanks. I planned on pitching behind every hitter). 2. Mix the speeds (whew... what a relief. I was going just throw as hard as I can for all 7 innings and hope they can't hit a straight pitch). 3. Pitch to their weakness (wow... I would've NEVER thought of that!!) I am fairly certain SMITTY has it in her ESPN contract that her name cannot be said without saying 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist first. But those tips are the same for every pitcher, a thesaurus is used to find new words in the descriptions.
Here is why "curveballs and screwballs" seem effective at the young ages... because kids are scared of the ball and don't swing. Umpires are crappy at young age tournaments and a lot of balls are called strikes. So, it gives false hope that you have a screwball when all the girl did was jump out of the box. And when they're older, and they throw a "screwball".... first of all 9/10 times it's an inside pitch. And the other 1 time, its the girl giving the illusion of it screwballing by stepping left and throwing way right. And the curveball? sure, sometimes it works. You can catch someone off guard or get them fishing outside for it. But I would never throw it over the plate... anywhere. Why? IT STAYS FLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wanna throw a curve? Learn a rise first. If you can spin a ball backward necessary for the rise, you can spin it sideways for a curve. Then you can combine them for a rising curve. But learning the curve first can really hurt a pitchers' ability to learn a rise. Most curveballs are taught using a turning or twisting of the wrist. And the wrist is a the riseball killer... it's what makes a pitcher get bullet spin. A rise is done by a STRONG elbow whip so the wrist and fingers follow. NOT THE WRIST. The wrist follows the elbow in the kinetic chain of movements.
Most of you know, I played fastpitch my entire life. What you see in softball on TV is a bastardized version of what was played by the world's best when the game started. I'm glad the sport is popular and on TV, and will be in the Olympics again. But, so many young pitchers are RUINED by coaches who buy into BS of needing 8 pitches like a "backdoor screw". If Rick Pauly would've agreed to that, I would've swallowed the Red Pill, entered the Matrix and gone through my computer to choke him. (I can't remember if the Matrix was with the red or blue pill but I said red so nobody got the wrong idea.. get it... blue pill?)
I put my students (and parents) in the most extreme situation.... if facing Crystl Bustos... do want the ball to stay level with Screwball, curveball or fatball (fastball) or do you want it moving up and down? It's a pretty easy answer when you think like that. You can't get drunk on the success of a 12 year old who claims to have 8 pitches and, of course, throws 63 mph. Those girls are a dime a dozen. You cannot believe that success at 12 is landing you a scholarship. It's not. And, as someone who knows A LOT of D1 college coaches, they look for the 3 main pitches: Rise, Drop and change. If a coach asks for a crap (crop) throw a drop outside and if he/she is impressed then they likely don't have a clue about pitching.
This forum has a lot of good info on it. It also has info I wouldn't dream of telling or teaching a kid. As parents and coaches you guys have the unenviable job of figuring out which is good and which isn't. Common sense should be your first guide: ask yourself why your PC is trying to teach 8 pitches when the best coaches in the world were all on stage (we need to find that clip on Youtube: White, Candrea and Eriksen) telling you that pitchers only need 3: Rise, drop and change. Success at 12 yrs old doesn't mean success at 16.... and in addition to that regression in progress often comes with injury, sore arm, and getting hammered by good teams. Sorry, I just can't imagine a 15 year old ever being sore in mid season. But what do I know? It's not like I was pitching at 15... oh wait....
Bill
