I read BM horseshoe change thread

[Ball Game]

He says thumb inward by 9 but all of the laides do not have the thumb inward by 9...slow motion tells me around 7...couple of questions..is 9 just something to drill...are we looking for a more bent elbow...are we trying to shove this pitch?

Thanks

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Most change ups (excluding the knuckle) are about the elimination of what is referred to as IR. It is the elimination of whip. Rather than the hand being "inside the ball" pre-6-clock it is "outside the ball" at pre-6-oclock.

 

[Ball Game]

Most change ups (excluding the knuckle) are about the elimination of what is referred to as IR. It is the elimination of whip. Rather than the hand being "inside the ball" pre-6-clock it is "outside the ball" at pre-6-oclock.

Right. But that's not 9 o'clock. Am I missing something. His instructions say BY 9 o'clock. None of the girls I viewed do this. Euno, Smith, Cat or his student. All start the early I/R or thumb to inside around 7 o'clock. Not wanting to argue I'm just looking to grasp the concept!

This looks like a shove change to me also!

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

As you study video of good change-ups you will detect a deviation from a pitch such as a drop/fb just after 12-o'clock.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

p.s.
The way Kirk Walker (UCLA coach) described it to me ... the hand begins working to move towards what I call "outside the ball" just as the hand is passing through the 12-o'clock position.

 

[RetiredCoach]

Both my DDs, effectively, throw the horseshoe change. My youngest learned it in 10U and it has been brilliant for her ever since. Recently (on her own volition), she's been adding a twist over which gives it a curving action. What I find interesting is that without even thinking about what happens at 9 o'clock or 12 o'clock, my DDs were able to learn and throw this pitch effectively. Do some girls respond better to knowing what happens and at what time?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

p.p.s.
The way Mike White explained it to me, while studying a pitcher's motion the earliest you should be able to detect a good CU is at the 12-o'clock position.

Take note that in games Mike prefers to detect the CU by picking the grip prior to the pitching motion.

 

[Ball Game]

I don't see any flip action with this pitch either...I see a stiff wrist/forearm and a shove action

 

[Ball Game]

Both my DDs, effectively, throw the horseshoe change. My youngest learned it in 10U and it has been brilliant for her ever since. Recently (on her own volition), she's been adding a twist over which gives it a curving action. What I find interesting is that without even thinking about what happens at 9 o'clock or 12 o'clock, my DDs were able to learn and throw this pitch effectively. Do some girls respond better to knowing what happens and at what time?

Id say the coach would need to know this information in order to see whats happening and how and what hes looking for. So if your kid was able to JUST GET IT...Then be thankful!

 

[BoardMember]

He says thumb inward by 9 but all of the laides do not have the thumb inward by 9...

Correct! Not "all the ladies" have the thumb in by 9:00, just like not "all the ladies use a backswing" in the pitching motion. That's just the training goal I use to KILL I/R IN TIME no matter what kind of change it is.......And from experience that goal works to shut down I/R without slowing down the arm circle..........

Doesn't mean you have to teach it that way.......You need to find what works for your DD.

slow motion tells me around 7

From my experience, attempting to turn the thumb in "just before release", you risk adding velocity from I/R that late.......

Something like this is my goal and is what I advocate........Certainly LONG before "almost at release".

couple of questions..is 9 just something to drill...are we looking for a more bent elbow...are we trying to shove this pitch?

Thanks

Shove it.....Flip it......Pull it.......Kill it......JUST DON'T THROW IT...........