Theoretical Crow-hop advantage

Look at this picture as a reference:


So in this picture we want to look at the critical differences between a “skippy” replanter versus a normal (in my book legal) dragger. This critical difference would be the force vector labelled “100+%BW”. I will call this “Push Vector 1”. (yes this is baseball but it applies to SB too)

I would hope that we can all agree that the other force-vectors shown here are relative magnitudes based off of this “Push Vector” and these forces turn into pitch speed.

So let’s analyze the dragger first. The dragger has only ONE “Push Vector”. This was the original push off the rubber. They push this first time then after that it is all the plant foot as the moment-arm. That is it. You get what you get from the original push.

Now let’s contrast that with a skippy replanter. The skippy has a second Push Vector 2 and this happens when the body is already in full speed from Push 1. Since the body is in full speed from push 1 the push 2 is used for multiple additive advantages:
1. It’s a second additive push forward now with the added straight forward speed of the 2nd push driving all forward instead of up and forward (as the first push does)
2. Additionally the replanted foot on the second push is a solid base to start the rotational forces used in producing the three top rotational forces shown in the picture. (you can’t deny the fact that rotational forces are greater from an anchor point)

Realizing the dynamics of replanting I just don’t get how it is not apparent that it is a big potential advantage.

I don't think you are going to get many people saying a replant does not give an advantage, it clearly does.

a definite advantage energy wise and distance to plate wise

Definitely puts the pitcher closer, but almost every crow hop I have seen is caused by a stop or delay in the rotation of the arm. I would suggest that this would negate any benefit of being closer. The arm pausing at the top of the circle would cause a reduction of arm speed. Just my 2 cents.

TMoney said:

Definitely puts the pitcher closer, but almost every crow hop I have seen is caused by a stop or delay in the rotation of the arm. I would suggest that this would negate any benefit of being closer. The arm pausing at the top of the circle would cause a reduction of arm speed. Just my 2 cents.

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I've heard that before... think your right.

Allowing the hitch challenged pitcher to get away with it is not good for the Game

The arm circle speed does not matter at all. All of a pitcher's arm speed is gathered in the last 90 degrees or so of the rotation. The "hitch" is present in all the men's pitchers (since they all crow hop) and it doesn't affect their speed negatively.

JJsqueeze said:

The arm circle speed does not matter at all. All of a pitcher's arm speed is gathered in the last 90 degrees or so of the rotation. The "hitch" is present in all the men's pitchers (since they all crow hop) and it doesn't affect their speed negatively.

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If I thought that was true, the last 90degrees, I'd have DD just through the "slingshot/ Hal's Submarine" and throw out DM...Its a lose of the rhythm. A lose of the integrity. A lose of teaching opportunities in the future. JMHO

EP: I'm not a Speed Guy... Its where the early flame throwers end up.

"Hitch in the arm circle causes a crow hop" is another pitching fallacy that gets rehashed over and over again that it becomes gospel. The arm circle has nothing to do with a crow hop. For example, the men all crow hop, do you see a hitch in their arm circle? How about Cat Osterman, Ally Carda, etc. they all have very smooth arm circles. Let's put to rest that somehow the arm circle is what is causing all of these crow hops and replants.

Perfect Circle said:

If I thought that was true, the last 90degrees, I'd have DD just through the "slingshot/ Hal's Submarine" and throw out DM...Its a lose of the rhythm. A lose of the integrity. A lose of teaching opportunities in the future. JMHO

EP: I'm not a Speed Guy... Its where the early flame throwers end up.

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Check high speed video and measure the number of frames in the arm circle. The first 270 on Cat Osterman and your DD will be nearly identical but Cat will blow her away the last 90.

Rocketech1 said:

"Hitch in the arm circle causes a crow hop" is another pitching fallacy that gets rehashed over and over again that it becomes gospel. The arm circle has nothing to do with a crow hop. For example, the men all crow hop, do you see a hitch in their arm circle? How about Cat Osterman, Ally Carda, etc. they all have very smooth arm circles. Let's put to rest that somehow the arm circle is what is causing all of these crow hops and replants.

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Now that's an opinion... Glad you can express it But its not mine. I formed mine... 1st hand from a Men's Fastpitch Champion.

If not the hitch, what do you think causes it, not counting DB entitlement or lack of perfect practice ?