DD Getting Frustrated with Speed

JJsqueeze said:

A trick that makes a pitcher more consistent.

I need to make a desk calendar with all of the gems you sprinkle across the board. A quote of the day type thing.

You do realize, from a strictly logical sense that a "trick" that improves performance is another way of saying it is something good to do?

"she uses this base running trick of rounding to get to the next base quicker"

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DD's coach, frustrated (I feel his pain) with her slow running, provided her with this gem: move your legs faster and take bigger steps!

She didn't do it (bull-headed I guess), but I thought you could use it for your calendar.

dmaeganx2 said:

in the 3 frames starting at 10 what I saw is right shoulder starts to turn forward and almost drag her arm around is this what you are referring to javasource or am I not seeing it correctly.

essentially closing shoulders to early ?

also starts to have little lean forward bend at waste.

thanks for the help.

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I think you nailed it nicely... but to make sure...

Here's a reference... so we are both on the same page:



Imagine the torso as having 4 corners... shoulders being the upper right and left corners... hips being the lower right and left corners.

In frames 1&2 I see the upper right corner moving through space FORWARD. I also see the throwing elbow move from pointed at the ground to pointing behind her.

In frames 2&3 I see the upper right corner rotating to the target at an attempt of force production... like the dragging her arm around comment you made. Nice analogy, BTW.

In frames 3&4 I see ZERO LAG of the ball in relation to the arm. This is where I believe she's getting behind the ball... something that the rotational dilemma of the upper right corner has created.

In frames 4&5 I see a pitcher attempting to restrict the follow-through... by forcefully shutting the shoulder down with a shrug/tightness. As opposed to allowing the forearm to accelerate across the body... which would naturally 'suck' the energy out of the upper-arm... and not necessitate the need to shut the shoulder forces down 'manually'.

You mentioned 'closing the shoulders too early'.... there's more to it than just that. Closing is rotational... your daughter does this BUT is also guilty of bringing the upper torso forward.

BM's Lock-it-in drill and 9 o'clock drill is a good place to re-visit... only this time, make her focus on quieting the "four corners". Once she can do this... see if she can maintain the 'quiet torso' while starting to power-up those tosses from Lock-it-in and 9... working towards throwing from drill position as hard as she can throw a regular pitch.

Rich mentioned the lift of the rear foot into release... I see your daughter doing this... but it appears that a string from her right shoulder is tied to her heel. See if she can lift that rear heel without lifting the shoulder. Does that make sense? This is one of those in-person kind of deals... so I hope it does!

Out in Left Field said:

I run clinics with a top pitcher in my state and not one is a brusher.

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The proof is in the pudding...

Who might this pitcher be... pretty sure video of her throwing would end this debate... and what your definition of 'top pitcher' is.

Out in Left Field said:

Brush is gone, done, yes some old time men did it in the day and one old time lady in NY has an HE video that prominently features it.

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Here are some REAL top "now" pitchers... odd... isn't it?

Inglesby


2014 World Series


2014 World Series

Out in Left Field said:

While whacking your hip is good for consistency it is not for velocity and health.

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Funny how this 'whacking' happens when the angular velocity of the ball is at the greatest point... and is very, very prevalent on the fastest of the 'fast' pitches.

Java let me ask you a question I have a unique DD meaning she does not drill well. I had her run the lock-it drill and 9 o'clock drill the one thing I noticed is she can not hit her hip with her elbow even if she hold her arm out and just lets it fall her are turns before the elbow can hit the hip and I am curious have you ever seen this before.

I literally mean with no ball in her hand at 9 o'clock with flexion in arm, hips at about 45, shoulders open, palm towards third, and just let her arm fall from that point and her arm turns on its own when her elbow gets about 3 inches from her hip

I had her do it with ball up and towards 3rd at 9 o'clock with or without the ball results are same her arm just turns


have you seen this before and this is with no shoulder rotation at all and closing shoulders to 45 and holding??


thank you

This is a good question... and probably one of the things that many, many people try to pull off unsuccessfully... as it is not anatomically easy... and IMO, not recommended.

Too many people try and keep the palm up after 9... and drive the elbow in to the side as a result. If you notice in the videos above... ALL of the pitchers have their hands inside the ball as they come in to release. They do not have palm-up once they reach lock-it-in position (like 8 o'clock)... but are instead LEADING WITH THE PINKY.

The brush surface is NOT the elbow. Take a look at Inglesby (the first gif) above... she (and all the others) are brushing with the inside of the forearm BELOW the elbow... in that meaty area of the forearm where many do not tan.

I do teach to lead with the elbow UNTIL 9... and from there to let her rip. If needed, I may cue a pitcher to lead with the pinky.

So, to directly answer your question... yes - I've seen many pitchers try to contact the elbow... probably the reason why a few hate the cue (as the bruises are not pretty). No matter the build, I've yet to see a girl physically unable to pull off brushing the underside of the forearm (even HE)... when they brush the right surface. Make sure the butt isn't sticking out to clear a path... and make sure the path that the rear heel is taking isn't rearward; cause that pulls the contact surfaces - the hip & thigh away from the 'brush zone'. Your DD doesn't appear to exhibit either of these issues... so I assume she's trying to contact the wrong surface of the arm.

Again, great question... ~JS

she does pull her rear foot out we are currently trying to fix that but I am wondering if it is because she gets hip locked due to the length of her stride. Where she normally brushes is in the middle of her forearm when she is drilling. But when pitching she looses the brush due to her right foot. the reason she pulls it off the ground is because it drags off about 10 inches to the right of her. From a fontal view. when she does the lock it in or 9 o'clock drill her arm begins to rotate before her elbow can contact her side. but she does brush the inner forearm but I believe it is to low on the forearm due to the early rotation in her upper arm. Now if she has ball up at 9 o'clock her upper arm rotation seems to start later or evens out maybe where the hand is located as it approaches the rear hip. So does it matter if her elbow ever gets to the lock it in portion as long as she is getting the proper brush on the forearm ? By the way you probably have seen My typing skills are horrid so please bare with me ??


thank you

dmaeganx2 said:

she does pull her rear foot out we are currently trying to fix that but I am wondering if it is because she gets hip locked due to the length of her stride.

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IMO, her stride is pretty nice.... and her hips don't lock out do to length of stride. She could stand to drive with a little more strength and urgency... but that's just my opinion.

dmaeganx2 said:

Where she normally brushes is in the middle of her forearm when she is drilling. But when pitching she looses the brush due to her right foot. the reason she pulls it off the ground is because it drags off about 10 inches to the right of her. From a fontal view. when she does the lock it in or 9 o'clock drill her arm begins to rotate before her elbow can contact her side. but she does brush the inner forearm but I believe it is to low on the forearm due to the early rotation in her upper arm. Now if she has ball up at 9 o'clock her upper arm rotation seems to start later or evens out maybe where the hand is located as it approaches the rear hip. So does it matter if her elbow ever gets to the lock it in portion as long as she is getting the proper brush on the forearm ? By the way you probably have seen My typing skills are horrid so please bare with me ??

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I think the circle is made up of quadrants: 6-3, 3-12, 12-9, 9-6

In the 12-9 quadrant... I want elbow to the ground (i.e. palm-up).
In the 9-6 quadrant... I want leading with the pinky (i.e. hand inside the ball).

If the elbow becomes a fixation in the 9-6 quadrant, I see many girls elbow snapping (hyper-extension at the elbow)... so I don't make it too much of a focus there. I like pitchers to work out a little of the bend, but not all of it. You'll see what I mean in the clips above. That slight maintenance of bend (loose) allows the ball to 'see' the target (create all the 'spacing' necessary). Perhaps less of a cue on elbow at this point in drill would be beneficial to her...

As far as your question regarding the elbow reaching the side... if a pitcher utilizes good elbow flexion in the back half of the circle, their TRICEP will be lightly touching the side by 8 (Lock-it-in). At this point, good whip & a quiet upper body will take over... resulting in the upper arm slowing as the forearm accelerates. So, yes, it does matter - but it need not get 'pinned' to the side by effort of her own... but instead because the forearm is accelerating and 'sucking' the energy out. The rest is probably to finite to consider in instruction.... but... regarding your comment above on early rotation in the upper arm:

The humerus attaches in the shoulder socket. If the shoulder rotates... so do the attachments. Don't lose sight of this... because the position of the torso in her full pitch is the foundation of her ability to maximize the whip. Hope that helps!

yes that does help a lot because that word fixate you used can describe my DD to a T. She doesn't drill well because she is a perfectionist and can take things out of context to where she gets fixated on it and in the process creates a bad habit somewhere else, in the year it took me to get her to this point I learned that very quickly. like when I told her " lock it in " she was trying to pull the elbow to her side so I had to quickly think of how I approached it ...

I wish I could get this other video clipped but my pc is not working with me. It is more side then behind and in it the shoulder rotation is there but she is leading pinky till about from 9 till about 7:30 maybe 7 I think I am going to attack this in 2 ways fix posture (Strong Front side and Trailing off left foot and shoulder rotation first) while I warm her up with the appropriate IR drills before she pitches . And When its brought together See how much of the problem still remains

Maybe get ahold of an iphone 5/6 for the super slow mo... that and ubersense app. I'm curious about her hand position on the ball coming back down? Is her hand under it and pulling down, or is she on the back side and showing it to 3rd base? I suspect she is on the side and showing 3rd. We discovered this with my DD and are trying to move her to pull it down, but it is very difficult for her to break the old mechanic.

If you can get under the ball, I think most of the whipping of IR is almost a no teach. Nearly impossible to bowl the pitch when you pull the ball down the circle. She also could add more to her drive, but I think that is a secondary thing, not her primary concern right now.

With HS season right around the corner, would probably work on the "low hanging fruit" such as her drive mechanics and getting strong front side. Correcting these issues should / will result in increased MPH.