Change up (Change?)

nothing bad about it. just the facts sir.

colin said:

nothing bad about it. just the facts sir.

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You're right! I presented the facts that could NOT be countered.

Thank you.

RubberBiscuit said:

OMG stop referring to that BAD science!!!!!

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If you thinks it helps hitting, trust perception over reality and believe your eyes instead of high speed video and physics. But you're wrong to fault the science.

RubberBiscuit said:

You're right! I presented the facts that could NOT be countered.

Thank you.

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I look forward to your presentation at the March 2015 American Physical Society annual meeting in San Antonio

Greenmonsters said:

If you thinks it helps hitting, trust perception over reality and believe your eyes instead of high speed video and physics. But you're wrong to fault the science.

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Dude you're digging yourself deeper and ya don't even know it.

Please investigate Statistics-101 and "minimum sample size" and apply that to the "science" you think you learned from that original thread.

Until then this conversation is over....

Rocketech1 said:

…Some absolutes are the change should be approx 25% slower than fastest pitch, …

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Whenever someone mentions “absolutes” in ball diamond sports it gets my attention, especially when stated as the above where the absolute is approximate. What you seem to really be saying is, the change should be 25% slower +- some percentage than fastest pitch.

Being a numbers guy, the 1st think I do is look at the numbers. In baseball an 100mph FB would mean the CU had to be 75mph, and I can tell you that ain’t gonna happen very often. In SB that would mean a 70mph FB would require a 45mph CU. Perhaps that commonplace in SB, but it sure seems to me that there’s something out of whack with that “absolute”.

Yea, one must be very careful trying to find absolutes in fastpitch softball. There are so many variances in different situations, level of play, competition but, probably mostly, the individual talents and skills of the player/pitcher. As for CUs, I know of a very successful DI pitcher who's CU is only 6 mph slower than her FB (yes, FB). Her PC, whom I know, worked with her pitch selection and found what worked best for her. To each her own!

What you are referring to is what I would call an offspeed pitch and not a true changeup. Many elite pitchers will have three different speeds.

Regarding my statement that the C/U should be 25% less speed than the fastest pitch isn't an exact % but a range. The point is that you want the c/u slow enough to disrupt the batters timing.

Scorekeeper said:

Whenever someone mentions “absolutes” in ball diamond sports it gets my attention, especially when stated as the above where the absolute is approximate. What you seem to really be saying is, the change should be 25% slower +- some percentage than fastest pitch.

Being a numbers guy, the 1st think I do is look at the numbers. In baseball an 100mph FB would mean the CU had to be 75mph, and I can tell you that ain’t gonna happen very often. In SB that would mean a 70mph FB would require a 45mph CU. Perhaps that commonplace in SB, but it sure seems to me that there’s something out of whack with that “absolute”.

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I know you like to equate softball with baseball but there are many differences especially when it come to pitching. In baseball the smaller ball and longer distance and pitching from an elevated mound are all important variables that make baseball pitching different than fastpitch. The decrease in velocity for baseblall doesn't have to be as great to be effective as it needs to be for fastptich.

Rocketech1 said:

What you are referring to is what I would call an offspeed pitch and not a true changeup. Many elite pitchers will have three different speeds.

Regarding my statement that the C/U should be 25% less speed than the fastest pitch isn't an exact % but a range. The point is that you want the c/u slow enough to disrupt the batters timing.

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Every pitch that isn’t a 100% FB is off speed to some degree.

When you call something an absolute, it means it’s unconditionally true, but now you’re waffling and trying to say it isn’t. As RetiredCoach so eloquently put it, “to each her own”!

You got close to an absolute, but it really doesn’t have to do with velocity alone, and that’s where many people make their mistake. It has to do with deception, or making the batter believe something is true when it isn’t. If it was velocity alone, what difference would it make if it looked like a FB, or if arm speed was kept as close as possible to FB arm speed.