Change up (Change?)

Greenmonsters said:

What??? That's not what I got out of those discussions! Sure the amount of break may increase at later times, but there's no drastic change or instantaneous break i.e., all pitch trajectories are smooth.

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Instantaneous no. Smooth not quite sure. I guess it depends on the perspective. When I went to sea years ago on an aircraft carrier 2-3 foot seas were smooth. However, more recently in a 17ft flats boat 2-3 foot seas are anything but smooth.

Coachmom said:

What I mean is that the back spin fast enough it can be mistaken for the topspin of a fastball.
You almost cannot tell it's spinning backwards.
Hope that makes sense.

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I get it, absolutely makes sense. Most hitters cannot pick up spin direction very well and when you get up into 25+ rps the seams blur.

riseball said:

Instantaneous no. Smooth not quite sure. I guess it depends on the perspective. When I went to sea years ago on an aircraft carrier 2-3 foot seas were smooth. However, more recently in a 17ft flats boat 2-3 foot seas are anything but smooth.

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I'm glad you didn't sail off the edge of the earth in either vessel.

Greenmonsters said:

I'm glad you didn't sail off the edge of the earth in either vessel.

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There are lines out there marking the edges. Same as on the maps.

catchermom13 said:

Coachmom,
My dd also throws the flip (14u). It is a great pitch for her also, but I was always under the impression that you didn't want much spin on a change - more stiff wrist, etc. Does getting more backspin on that pitch make it more effective? If so, how do you get that much spin on it? Not palming it as much and using fingers on seam? Would like to work on this more.

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The spinning will cause it to be harder for the hitters to judge the speed--if thrown low in the zone with a good fastball line.
Lesser spinning change ups can be just as effective, just remember to keep the line(path) very similar to the fastball and the pitchers movements as well.
No spinning change-ups can dance a bit, especially on windy days. The only time I was ever busted in the face catching was by one of these.

Bumping this for a big nugget from Rich B on reducing speed of change for C Hawkins, it seems to work well.

abbygale said:

Bumping this for a big nugget from Rich B on reducing speed of change for C Hawkins, it seems to work well.

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What I find fascinating is that the great Rich B said her riseball "jumped a foot". Even someone who has over 35 years pitching experience believes that a rise ball "jumps". Contrast that statement with actual video of Sarah Pauly that clearly shows that her rise ball flattens out as it approaches home plate.

The bottomline is that even the best can be fooled into believing what they think is happening versus what actually happens.

I do like what he said about bringing the thumb toward the hip more to take off the speed of the change up. Good stuff there.

We experimented with a few different change ups but ended up going with the circle change. She seemed to be the most consistent and was able hit different spots with it. As people have commented in this thread, it's a preference as to which type of change up your DD throws, as long as she has good control and keep it slow and low.

SoCalASABlue said:

Jusy my opinion but the most important part of pitch calling (coach or catcher) is understanding and working within the umpire's zone...I love batters that walk away shaking their heads saying "it wasn't a strike" when the umpire's been calling that "in the river" outside strike the whole game...the catcher that understands that and works with it is worth her weight in gold...

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Ya this touches on what I think is an untapped consideration with the CU, or any other pitch, but mostly the CU. Like you say SCAB, a great catcher to recognize an umpire who can work towards the defenses benefit, is HUGE. It's also HUGE when (in general) the pitcher/catcher/pitch-calling-coach find out early in a game the umpires "zone weakness" and ya just expose the heck out of it. Last summer season we had an ump call any CU that bounced off the back of the plate a strike. We abused the heck out of that and caused the other team great havoc.

To me the biggest problem with the CU, after mastering hiding the pitch speed during delivery, is that umps tend to squeeze the crap out of the CU strike zone. For this reason ONLY I think the CU is a "lesser pitch".

Greenmonsters said:

Pitches don't suddenly move or change speeds! Physics dictate that EVERY pitch (except, and then only on rare occasion, a knuckeball) follows a smooth trajectory (i.e., there are no sudden drops, rises, or breaks) with the velocity decreasing gradually following release from the hand (i.e., there are no drastic changes mid pitch). If you're really interested in the physics, use the DFP search function to find posts by POBguy.

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OMG stop referring to that BAD science!!!!!