Ball up at 9 o'clock

I Have a question? But first let me say that u guys on this website r awesome! Txnick has taken me under is wings! He has also put me in contact w/ Javasource! I am so excited! I have learned so much about pitching in such a short amount time! I have read all I can about I/R and continue to read and learn! I love the Hansen principal! My daughter was a pusher so I have been slowly converting her to I/R.

My question is: does having the ball up at 9 o'clock help w/ speed, spin, or whip? I think my daughter started whipping the ball b/c of this.

Thanks!

sbcowboy said:

My question is: does having the ball up at 9 o'clock help w/ speed, spin, or whip?

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I would say: all three.

Palm-up at 9:00 position means that internal rotation is being delayed to occur just before, and at, release.
("pushers" typically internally rotate the arm between 12:00-9:00...)
This creates tension/stretching/etc that contributes to speed and spin; and if the ball/hand lags properly behind (with a slight bend at the elbow...) until the upper arm reaches a nearly vertical position and briefly pauses, then also whip.

First, Java is awesome. I toss 2 of my pitchers into my car every Saturday and drive 1:45 to see him for a 2 hour lesson with him. We have cage time from 8:00-9:30 every Saturday and lessons with JS and his daughter Chloe at Noon. We grab some coffee and doughnut holes and just go! Well worth the drive!!!! OK...sorry...you're in Texas...LMAO...ok, thank the Lord for the internet and digital video!

To answer your question - all 5 (your forgot location and movement due to axis control). I'm as new as you are to this (pitching DD is a 3rd year TB player, 18 months pitching; 9 weeks moving to I/R). This DD has gone from registering 39mph/13.5 avg spin rate on a RevFire to 49 mph/12.9 since moving to I/R.

Seriously, I bought a catcher's glove and mask this week and I played D1/D2 ball! The speed different is crazy! Control is ridiculous!

My novice opinion on your comment about starting to whip the ball (please BM, JS, Ken et al correct me). If she is arm whipping the ball the effect of this would be to see your DD consistently unlocking her elbow like BM's I/R in the classroom thread. IMO, if the elbow does not unlock from the side on a full pitch, there is something out of synch, a postural deficiency or some other fundamental flaw (like tension) that requires correction.

Just my opinion as a Dad (I'm a TB coach too) - if you want your DD to pitch I/R than YOU need to learn to throw I/R too. The old adage of "do as I say not as I do" does not fly in my house (I'm outnumbered 4-1)!

CP

forgive my ignorance but, is 9 oclock when arm is parallel to the ground and behind or in front of the pitcher?

sbcowboy said:

I Have a question? But first let me say that u guys on this website r awesome! Txnick has taken me under is wings! He has also put me in contact w/ Javasource! I am so excited! I have learned so much about pitching in such a short amount time! I have read all I can about I/R and continue to read and learn! I love the Hansen principal! My daughter was a pusher so I have been slowly converting her to I/R.

My question is: does having the ball up at 9 o'clock help w/ speed, spin, or whip? I think my daughter started whipping the ball b/c of this.

Thanks!

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fastpitchdad8 said:

forgive my ignorance but, is 9 oclock when arm is parallel to the ground and behind or in front of the pitcher?

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behind or "pointing" at 2B

cuzmail said:

behind or "pointing" at 2B

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That was fast lol. Thanks cuz

Unlocking does happen, but I'm not sure I'd make it an emphasis unless needed. For me the feel of locking is much more important in the context of pulling the ball down then allowing the lower arm to whip. In the pics below, notice how little the upper arm has moved relative to the ball:

Ken B said:

Unlocking does happen, but I'm not sure I'd make it an emphasis unless needed. For me the feel of locking is much more important in the context of pulling the ball down then allowing the lower arm to whip. In the pics below, notice how little the upper arm has moved relative to the ball:

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View attachment 5255View attachment 5256

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This is absolutely critical. Brush contact is what decelerates the upper arm and causes angular velocity in the forearm. This, IMO, is the secret ingredient in the difference between good pitchers and great ones.

You mean like Ben Hogan's secret to his swing?

I know nothing about golf except that Happy Gilmore beat the stuffing out of Bob Barker.