Pitching around the hip

coachdan · Nov 2, 2009

I was watching a video of Amanda Scarboro and Japan pitcher Ueno and noticed how both of their back hips seem to close early and the the ball is pitched "around the hip". These are high level pitcher that throw the ball at or near 70 mph. Though this would be a good topic for discussion.

YouTube - Amanda and Ueno 70mph rear

sluggers · Nov 2, 2009

The hips close slightly before the arm goes by. The video you posted is of the pitchers throwing curves.

Scarborough is throwing a curve drop in the left and bottom videos. In the top, she is throwing a fastball. She closes her hips earlier for a curve.

Same thing with Uneo. If the clip were longer, you would see Uneo's great curve.

<embed src="http://share.ovi.com/flash/player.aspx?media=sluggers.10004&channelname=sluggers.softball" width="512" height="420" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed>

Uneo does close slightly later than other pitchers. When she throws a fastball, she lets the arm go by before completely closing.

There is a thread on here discussing the amount of closing the hips do before the arm goes by. If I remember correctly, it is something like a 20 degree close of the hips.

ifubuildit · Nov 3, 2009

Dan

I do not know if your aware of this or not. In 1996 there was a study done on the Olympic Pitchers.

Softball Pitching at the 1996 Olympic Games

This was, to my knowledge, the first real comprehensive study done on the kinetics and biomechanics of pitching. It revealed some interesting information.

I suggest you read this report and then decide for yourself what you think the best methods are for pitching. As well as looking at video like sluggers provided. (Side view, Not rear) The study showed that at foot plant the pitchers hips should be at a 45 degree angle to a 52 degree angle at release for maximum velocity to be generated.

So, when we talk in terms of "Opening Up" it should be based on the hips being closed at the start and then opening to a 45 degree to 52 degree angle.

The real key IMO is that the hand has to pass the back hip and release the ball before fully closing. If she closes that hip more than defined above or the hand comes beside the hip at the same time she is closing it then the pitcher will be pitching around her hip and the ball will be consistently thrown inside on a RH hitter.

Everyone has an idea of what Pitching around the hip means but if there are parameters that are defined such as above then we can talk apples to apples and not apples to watermelons.

Hope this helps gives you a better understanding of what is and isnt correct.

Dana.

Jeff_H · Nov 3, 2009

ifubuildit said:
I do not know if your aware of this or not. In 1996 there was a study done on the Olympic Pitchers.

Softball Pitching at the 1996 Olympic Games

This was, to my knowledge, the first real comprehensive study done on the kinetics and biomechanics of pitching. It revealed some interesting information.

I suggest you read this report and then decide for yourself what you think the best methods are for pitching. As well as looking at video like sluggers provided. (Side view, Not rear) The study showed that at foot plant the pitchers hips should be at a 45 degree angle to a 52 degree angle at release for maximum velocity to be generated.

So, when we talk in terms of "Opening Up" it should be based on the hips being closed at the start and then opening to a 45 degree to 52 degree angle.

The real key IMO is that the hand has to pass the back hip and release the ball before fully closing. If she closes that hip more than defined above or the hand comes beside the hip at the same time she is closing it then the pitcher will be pitching around her hip and the ball will be consistently thrown inside on a RH hitter.

Everyone has an idea of what Pitching around the hip means but if there are parameters that are defined such as above then we can talk apples to apples and not apples to watermelons.

Hope this helps gives you a better understanding of what is and isnt correct.

Dana.

The study was compiled using just the rise ball.

ifubuildit · Nov 3, 2009

Jeff

That really shouldn't matter from a mechanics perspective. There are optimal and sub optimal mechanics as boardmember would state, and the hips being opened to a 45 degree angle at release would be optimal regardless of the type of pitch.

When you watch video of any pitcher at release who is of a high quality that is the first thing that should be recognized.

Dana.

Mark H · Nov 3, 2009

Jeff_H said:
The study was compiled using just the rise ball.

Which pitch would dictate a more open hip than other pitches.

Mark H · Nov 3, 2009

The whipping loop turning over is a big key for "getting around the hip". The Scarborough clip filmed from centerfield is an excellent case in point.

halskinner · Nov 3, 2009

Jeff_H said:
The study was compiled using just the rise ball.

It was compiled from the photographic data of 26 Olympic pitchers thatwere throwing the riseball. IT WAS NOT A STUDY OF THE RISEBALL.

It was compiled to show the safest throwing mechanics for the female shoulder complex.

I believe they first made this report available in1998.

I have a copy in my files but I do not post it on the web.

You have to have the authors permission to do that. I think that is why they took it off the web in the first place.

Bruce_W · Nov 4, 2009

I've never offered my two cents here before but I have to agree with coachdan. They appear to be closing early and pitching around the hip. They don't appear to be using the mechanics described in the study.

Mark H · Nov 4, 2009

Well there's the matter of degree and there's the matter of function. You have to ask, how much do they close, when and why. I doubt the lady, whose name Hal will recall for, me mis-measured the joint movements in her study.

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