Roll Over Drop/Drop Curve

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Jul 17, 2012
1,091
38
I am posting this because my DD's PC is working with her on a Drop Curve.....Basically the same release as a Roll over drop, but doing so at a slight angle to create the lateral, as well as vertical movement. This is new to me. What I have noticed is this... She's basically throwing a roll over drop. The pitch lacks the lateral portion of the spin. It's a tight 12-6 spin. Here's where it gets intersting. I bought a Rev Fire a short while back so I have facts to present. Her FB registers anywhere from 17-19 RPS. The spin is like BoardMember's "gear". From the catchers perspective... it's a 1-7 spin and the speed on the Rev Fire is typically between 47 and 49....once in a while when I fire her up she hits 50-51. When she throws the drop curve... the speed drops to 43-44, and the RPS slows to 13-15 rps, BUT... it drops. Noticable in my eyes. Her FB might drift a bit...but nothing to get excited about. Is it possible? Fewer RPS...less velocity, but more movement? Is movement maximized by a relationship between velocity and rps? Can you throw "Through" the movement if the velocity is too much for the rate of spin?
 
Last edited:
Jul 26, 2010
3,567
0
Drop balls move more when they're a bit off speed. The release of the roll-over also helps the whole "smoke and mirrors" part of the pitch, as the release point is higher off the ground, and the pitch is thrown down, so it creates more of an illusion.

Honestly, if she's throwing it well I wouldn't mess with it. Usually drop curves are created when a pitcher can't throw a proper drop. Maybe see if you have better luck with her throwing a curve that drops?

-W
 
Jun 23, 2013
547
18
PacNw
Has anyone ever broken down a slow motion clip of Ricketts' crop? I'd be interested in seeing her release mechanics being explained in detail.
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,347
48
Western NY
Is it possible? Fewer RPS...less velocity, but more movement? Is movement maximized by a relationship between velocity and rps? Can you throw "Through" the movement if the velocity is too much for the rate of spin?

Yeah, I've witnessed this with other pitchers, too. I think your dd is in that speed range that allows for this drop effect to appear maximized (deceiving 40's). She has a combination of things working for her:

1). Mid-40's is fast enough to take some of the arc out, but slow enough to be "naturally" influenced - it's the perfect off-speed drop speed.
2). Gravity, drag, etc...

Give you some examples of why the 40's are pretty cool...

Given a constant release angle around 10 degrees (upward trajectory)...

A softball thrown at 42 mph will travel 39 feet before meeting the ground.
44 mph? This will travel 5 further feet, hitting the ground at 44 feet.
50 mph? This ball will travel 56 feet before hitting the ground.

These numbers do not include her 12-6 spin and the effect it has.

This shows why a lot of young pitchers have early drop success, but have a hard time maintaining it as they mature and add speed. As speed is added, the 12-6 spin she has and its rotation, as well as her release point (typically later) will need to provide more influence... as of now - they do add some, but the need isn't there because of her speed range....

Hope that makes sense...
 
Jul 17, 2012
1,091
38
Drop balls move more when they're a bit off speed. The release of the roll-over also helps the whole "smoke and mirrors" part of the pitch, as the release point is higher off the ground, and the pitch is thrown down, so it creates more of an illusion.

Honestly, if she's throwing it well I wouldn't mess with it. Usually drop curves are created when a pitcher can't throw a proper drop. Maybe see if you have better luck with her throwing a curve that drops?

-W
I guess I really dont care about the curve portion. Her PC and I talked about this a little after her last session. I asked her if this is just her natural interpretation of the release and if so, should we just leave it be a drop. She just advised me not to stress the curve....just focus on more spin....if it ends up being a perfect drop...so be it. She said she'll show her the palm up curve...which I like since that can be a good pitch to develop the rise spin when she gets a little older/stronger.

I want her to pitch for the present...as long as what she's learning for now.... will not hurt her in the future.
 
Jul 17, 2012
1,091
38
JS, is it typical for the roll-over to be a few mph off from the FB? Seems logical to me given the nature of the release. And that slight change in speed itself would have value.
 
Aug 23, 2010
582
18
Florida
So my DD throws the rollover drop. We do not call it a drop curve. Couple reasons. I want her to throw it on both sides of the plate effectively. Also, the drop curve from a RHP will fall on the same path as a RHB's swing path. In other words, it will stay on plane with the bat longer making it easier to hit. So we do try to work on getting a tight 12/6 spin on the rollover. I think the drop curve is a pitch designed for pitchers who couldn't get the correct release of the rollover. The reason you notice the drop more on your DD has less to do with her spin. It is because at the slower speeds, gravity is working and you can see it easier. A true drop that breaks due to spin, will be a much later break and you will know it when you see it.

Just to give some perspective, here are the results of my DD's drop at the latest NFCA camp
58 MPH 23 rev
57 MPH 22.9 rev

When we are focusing on her drop, we like to use the bucket drill. We take the pitching bucket and place it 10 feet in front of the plate. She has to pitch the ball over the bucket and bounce the ball on home plate. When she hits it a few times, we move the bucket closer to the plate. It becomes a game to see how close we can get the bucket to home and still bounce the ball on the plate.
 
FR
JS hit the nail on the head when he mentioned gravity. There is a direct relationship between speed and gravity; the longer the ball is in the air (slower speeds) the longer gravity has to affect its flight path. So, yes the slower speed will create more downward movement.

My experience regarding the reduction in spin rate is that what you experienced is normal. With the roll drop/dropcurve DD is performing a "trained" move with her wrist and fingers. Trained moves are typically slower and deliver less energy....thus lower spin rates and usually a drop in speed.
Speed/gravity is probably the biggest key to the performance of every pitch. IMO after that the two biggest keys are Release Angle and Release Point.
Going to expand a little on Release Point: Again, IMO, the release point for every pitch should nearly identical relative to its horizontal positioning (relative to timing of release) and that is why I am a big proponent of "brush interference".....the variation in release point should be in the height of ball release and that the height is controlled by the spine tilt. I.E.....more backwards tilt yields a lower release point (more release angle available and good for rising/high pitches).....less tilt or a near vertical posture yields a higher release point (less release angle available and good for lower pitches/dropballs). This could (and probably will) generate a whole new thread on body postures/spine tilt.
 
Jul 17, 2012
1,091
38
Joe, those are fantastic spin rates....how old is your daughter? They're off the chart for High School, and middle of the pack for college.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,481
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top