How to get 'junk' ball pitcher some respect?

DD is 13 and throws every kind of movement pitch there is pretty effectively. Tons of movement. So much so that when a girl is catching her who has never caught her before, she gets hit on the 1st 2-3 pitches guaranteed before she makes the adjustments.. She has played travel ball and has been nothing but effective for every team she has been on.

Problem is, when it comes to a tryout situation, every coach I run into loves the fastball.. They don't give a lick about how dead straight it is and how far into the bleachers it will get hit. DD can throw it hard, but experience has proven to her that it just doesn't work.. She is way more effective throwing 50 with crazy spin that 57 dead straight.

Why don't coaches even stand in a position either behind the pitcher or behind the catcher to see movement at a tryout? Almost invariably the coach stands to the side where the only thing they can see is speed. In a tryout situation if there are 3 girls going for 2 spots, DD gets cut every time to the girls who just throw gas. Even the ones who can't hit the strike zone consistently with it. They never look to see that her ball is moving like crazy through the strike zone.

I guess I am just frustrated and need to vent, but if anyone has any suggestions/ideas on how to extract craniums from rectums, I'd appreciate it..

58sdad,

By calling her a 'Junkball pitcher'', 'Thumber' or any other name, they ARE showing her respect, dont think they are not. Very rasrely is a good junkball pitcher's pitches hit out of the infield.

What you are running into is the 'Baseball' mindset ; 'The only thing that matters is speed, more speed and more speed than that. You always want to work hard on having overpowering speed available. It is the intelligent use of DIFFERENT SPEEDS that is the killer of pitching tactics.

In case comments like that are bothering her, here is chapter 34 from my book. I hope it helps her. Ask the coaches if they have seen her pitch. If they say yes, then ask them "You want her pitching for ya, or against ya?".


UNKIND THINGS SAID ABOUT A PITCHER.



I was probably in my mid teens when I finally figured something out, something I think is pretty important to a young pitcher.

It is a long time proven fact that if you are a pitcher that is worth your salt, people ARE going to be talking about you. If it is someone associated with a team you compete against, chances are some of the things they are going to say will not be very kind or flattering at all.

I had trained myself to be very good at blocking out comments like that so they did not affect me during the game. However, I still heard everything. Many times after the game I would wonder WHY someone had said whatever it was they had said about me personally or about my pitching.

I heard what was said about all the other pitchers too. It took me a few years but what finally educated me to the way it really is, is what I DID NOT HEAR about some of the pitchers.

People would talk a lot about the good pitchers, pitchers they either respected or feared for whatever reason, pitchers they did NOT want to go up against in competition.

People would seldom say much at all, if anything at all, about a pitcher they were not concerned about going up against.

I did not figure it out immediately but I finally realized that all of that talk and all of those unkind remarks about me (and my pitching) were a very great compliment to my ability and my intimidation factor as a pitcher.

As long as they WERE talking about me, they WERE worried about going up against me from the batter’s box. If they had ever STOPPED talking like that about me, then I would have started to be worried about my pitching ability.

If you are a young pitcher that is being bothered by unkind comments from the other teams, or cheers that are directed at you, take it as a HUGE compliment. They don't do that to EVERY pitcher, just the good ones that they are very worried about having to face.

I think folks say those unkind words hoping you will hear it or that their comment gets back to you and has an impact on the game you are going throw against their team. They are trying to get into your head. Go ahead and let them but make sure you translate what they say first because anything unkind said about a player can usually be translated to actually mean, “You are good and I don’t like that”.

Take it as a compliment and be polite, be sure to thank them for saying it with a very pleasant smile on your face.

Trust me, If they DO NOT say something unkind about you or your pitching, you might want to work a little harder on your pitching. If you are really good, they WILL be making unkind comments hoping to get you upset and have an affect on you and your pitching.

As long as they ARE talking (or cheering) about you, you are doing SOMETHING very VERY right! Keep up the good work!

I See this all the time.Ive got to DDs and they both pitch.one is a flame thrower with some monvement.the other throws hard but really works the spin.every pitch breaks hard,in different directions of her choosing.I love the junkball,Last weekend the umps and the opposing fans got into a rip roaring argument over her pitches being 5 inches off the plate.but they just tailed that hard.
I think the best coaches would realize that you need both to be affective.No matter how hard you throw good batting will catch up after the second rotation but junk with the ability to throw a strike when needed will keep allot of teams off balance the entire game.I have no doubt that one day youll find a coach recognizes her ability.

I think you'll find at her age and up, pure speed doesn't cut it anymore, and hopefully new doors of opportunity should open. 12/13/14 usually starts the shift of coaches looking for movement pitchers, oppose to fireballers.

Couple of things:
1. Maybe you're trying out for the wrong teams? Unfortuantly some coaches are idiots, especially when it comes to pitchers.
2. Get her name out there, pick up some games with other teams. All types of message boards for pick up players available. Eteamz etc.
3. How is she performing in the circle? Winning, losing, K's, BB.

Sometimes you gotta find the right team for your fit. Like we would carry a gas'r with a good CU, a east to west pitcher that could mix speeds, and a north to south one. I never wanted 2 of the same "type" pitchers. Maybe you just haven't found a team looking for her style yet.

Some of the best pitchers we ever faced we're little junkballers. We had one that gave us fits for years when we'd face off.

Best thing to do is ( if you're in a area with lots of teams ) is be a mercenary this year. Pick up every chance you get with different teams and get your DD seen and show the teams what you can do. If she's good, this is the fastest way to have people knocking on your door. Someone will want you permanent.

What class are you trying out for? A/B/C

OK I will play evil responder tonight.

But honestly from 16u TB (national level) on up I don't see these good junk-ballers.

Pitchers are throwing at least close to 60, with multiple pitches, or they are getting rocked.

Just saying what I have seen at that level. Just being real....

I'm in the same boat with my younger DD (plays 14UA)who isn't extremely fast but rarely gets hit hard. She has good movement on her pitches. We played this fall and I kept stats for the team and she was hit less than and not as hard as the other three pitchers he had but the coach played with testosterone and wanted girls that threw gas ....and he got his walks from them to the tune of 5-6 a game and they usually scored. At the first sign of trouble I.E. if she walked a batter she would be pulled for the faster girls ....now I'm as hard on my kid as anyone....probably more so but i didn't understand why he would pull her until later on that he just didn't trust her because she wasn't throwing hard enough. When we tried out for summer with this team he called us and said he didn't want her back because "she wasn't fast enough" so we left that team to join another and now the coaches love her but will not throw her changeup and she has a devastating change that buckles the knees of batters .... a lot of the time the can't even pull the trigger and she can throw it for strikes. So now are problem is she can get through the order once maybe twice and they start hitting off of her because she doesn't throw off speed....I just wish there were more coaches out there that "got it" as far as calling pitches

This is my opinion and ONLY my opinion. And it comes from extensive experience at the highest levels of the game. And is in no way is a reflection on any young lady who aspires to pitch...........

The human brain is an AMAZING thing. Given enough TIME..........It can/will figure out trajectory, vector, and impact collision points in almost anything related to a moving ball.........

With that said.........A 50mph curveball that moves 12 inches for example........Is far easier to hit then a 65mph curveball the moves 6"...........Because of the brains calculation/reaction time available..........

A 50mph riseball drops more then a 65mph riseball...........

A drop thrown at 50mph must be started much higher in the zone in order to reach the target from 46ft then a 63mph drop.......Same goes for change up..........

It's pretty obvious that the slower the pitch.........The longer it has to break before reaching the target........So slower pitchers can make the ball move more.........

The problem is.........The slower the pitch.......The more time the brain has to calculate trajectory for collision.......

In young immature brains, movement may confuse the brain........In Collegiate level mature brains, that have spent many years learning to calculate movement.........Speed with movement is the ONLY WAY to defeat this amazing tool........By lessening the time it has to calculate trajectory.........

One only has to watch a table tennis match to realize HOW AMAZING the human brain is at calculating trajectory and impact points........



Bottom line is "slow but moving balls" are no match for the experts in the field.........In this female game.......The expert hitters are playing in college.........Speed with movement is your only chance to defeat them.......

AMEN to all of what BoardMember said. It is good for dads and mom's to realistically evaluate where their DD is. The long term success of the slower junk ball pitcher is very limited. She may have some moments of success but do not equate it to a baseball junk ball pitcher. It is not the same. Also as you move up the softball ladder pitching rotations are not deep like baseball rotations. There will be fewer opportunities for the junk ball pitcher to pitch as usually 2 pitchers get most of the innings. That is not to say it can't be fun and girls can't have many great experiences at different levels. But...you have got to have the speed to be a top pitcher. Don't fool yourself.

BoardMember said:

This is my opinion and ONLY my opinion. And it comes from extensive experience at the highest levels of the game. And is in no way is a reflection on any young lady who aspires to pitch...........

The human brain is an AMAZING thing. Given enough TIME..........It can/will figure out trajectory, vector, and impact collision points in almost anything related to a moving ball.........

With that said.........A 50mph curveball that moves 12 inches for example........Is far easier to hit then a 65mph curveball the moves 6"...........Because of the brains calculation/reaction time available..........

A 50mph riseball drops more then a 65mph riseball...........

A drop thrown at 50mph must be started much higher in the zone in order to reach the target from 46ft then a 63mph drop.......Same goes for change up..........

It's pretty obvious that the slower the pitch.........The longer it has to break before reaching the target........So slower pitchers can make the ball move more.........

The problem is.........The slower the pitch.......The more time the brain has to calculate trajectory for collision.......

In young immature brains, movement may confuse the brain........In Collegiate level mature brains, that have spent many years learning to calculate movement.........Speed with movement is the ONLY WAY to defeat this amazing tool........By lessening the time it has to calculate trajectory.........

One only has to watch a table tennis match to realize HOW AMAZING the human brain is at calculating trajectory and impact points........



Bottom line is "slow but moving balls" are no match for the experts in the field.........In this female game.......The expert hitters are playing in college.........Speed with movement is your only chance to defeat them.......

Click to expand...

Rev-Fire has given coaches a means of measuring spin, which provides movement if the rotation is correct. Most high level teams want a flame thrower for their #1, and #2 if one is available. Therefore, I would make sure that a junk ball pitcher can hit and play a secondary position well if they want to make a high level team!

58sdad,
We're in the same boat, what's your cabin number? Lol
My did throws a 52mph fb at 14u, and she's only recently hit that, last fall it was more like 49-50... however her accuracy is unmatched and her movement is awesome. However, while pitching at her HS, she was named the jv starting pitcher while the varsity girl can only throw fastballs, but they are 60 mph. I've watched practice, and literally, she'll alternate between FB's and CU's... FB down main street, CU in the dirt. Over and over and over again... I understand that speed is important, but there needs to be some balance of movement, locations, and changing speeds. But as others have said, some coaches are stupid. My advise to you through my experience is to continue to promote her movement, but in addition, you'll need to get her on a pitcher specific workout that focuses on her legs and core. And really study her mechanics especially posture. My dd was a drifter (her body weight would come forward at the release instead of staying back and resisting on the front leg) this simple correction has gained her 2-3 mph since the winter. Look at the force of the drive, the speed of the circle, the release (bowling or I/R) , all of these things will contribute to lack of speed. Once she gains a few mph, combined with her movement, you can sit back with a grin while she dominates her competition.