Pitching I/R help please

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Mar 26, 2013
7
0
I am slightly confused with I/R. I have watched the videos and see that the top pitchers use this. My daughter is in her sixth year pitching,(13yr old) Taught by me a former D-1 pitcher. But I was not taught I/R, I was able to get up to 63 flipping my wrist to 2nd base and closing my hips completly after release, which was the only way taught in the midwest in the late 80's. I have already made some adjustments with her as to keeping the ball facing third and pulling elbow into hip. I want to switch her over to I/R release, due to the fact she has so many BAD habbits that I think a fresh motion might help. I am confused on the release. I have been watching Phil Schonberg's videos on the Forearm Fire, which is helpful. But it doesnt look like there is any kind of snap?? just rotation of the forearm?? I need help explaing I/R to a 13yr old whose mother has completly confused her! I know the first thing she is going to do is roll it over like a rollover drop. How do I explain the difference her? Also, any helpful hints to breaking this habbit...on the swing down when her glove comes down on the power line her glove shoulder comes down as well. I have been making her hold her glove up and not letting her move it during her motion, but obviously she cant pitch like this. Thanks, sorry for such a long post.
 
Mar 26, 2013
7
0
Thank you for your response, but what I get from house of pitching is that follow through is preferred to the left shoulder for a right handed pitcher. This is different info than what I found for Forearm Fire with palm facing down on fastpitchpower.com. This is part of my confusion??
 
Feb 5, 2010
222
16
Did you go over the "IR in the classroom" sticky? You should be able to show a 13 year old to help clear things up. The into. has some very simple drills to get the idea across. Once you start searching this site, you will get more clarification on wrist snap closing the hips.
 
Mar 6, 2013
32
0
Well my daughter 10 has been coached/pitching wrist flipping , hello elbow style for 3 years. 3 weeks ago I quit her PC and started teaching IR style based on Boardmember's videos. Since season is going to begin in 3 weeks I thought making drastic changes would negatively impact her during season. So I told her focus on pulling the ball and elbow/wrist snap with her NATURAL movement/follow through. It was tough for couple of weeks. This week I was amazed to see her pitching follow up very close to boardmember's videos in IR classroom. and she back to throwing with full control.
I think bottom line is telling them to throw natural will bring IR quickly.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
I am slightly confused with I/R. I have watched the videos and see that the top pitchers use this. My daughter is in her sixth year pitching,(13yr old) Taught by me a former D-1 pitcher. But I was not taught I/R, I was able to get up to 63 flipping my wrist to 2nd base and closing my hips completly after release, which was the only way taught in the midwest in the late 80's. I have already made some adjustments with her as to keeping the ball facing third and pulling elbow into hip. I want to switch her over to I/R release, due to the fact she has so many BAD habbits that I think a fresh motion might help. I am confused on the release. I have been watching Phil Schonberg's videos on the Forearm Fire, which is helpful. But it doesnt look like there is any kind of snap?? just rotation of the forearm??

With all due respect, the simple fact is that Coach Phil has no idea what he's doing regarding I/R, or what he re-coined as "forearm fire".

I would all together avoid his theories and explanations/demonstrations on how to achieve I/R. He knows it's right.......He just has no idea what it is.........I/R is NOT achieved by "snapping" a severe bend out of the elbow, down toward the ground........

YOUR trained eye picked up instantly that there is no "snap" in his delivery. You couldn't have been more right on.........He "pushes" the ball in his demo's because his theory on how I/R is achieved is contrived in his mind, vs. being bio-mechanically factual/natural.......

Here.......He trys to take his theory and put it into action. The results are a complete disaster.........

v5hbi1.gif


I need help explaing I/R to a 13yr old whose mother has completly confused her! I know the first thing she is going to do is roll it over like a rollover drop. How do I explain the difference her?

You are likely right about turning the ball over initially because of her previous training. You can't "explain" the difference to a 13yo. She has to be shown the difference.

Also, any helpful hints to breaking this habit...

The first thing I would do is get a small football, and teach her to throw an underhand spiral. This will break the habit of turning the hand behind the ball early, and train her arm and hand AND elbow to stay inside the ball as long as possible. Tell her to ALLOW her hand to turn over AFTER the ball is gone and AFTER a spiral is achieved........

This will also train her to maintain an open position until the ball is gone. Part of Coach Phils problem is that he "squares" his shoulders to the target BEFORE he releases the ball. If he actually threw the ball using I/R at that point, he'd likely throw it into the third base dugout......

on the swing down when her glove comes down on the power line her glove shoulder comes down as well. I have been making her hold her glove up and not letting her move it during her motion, but obviously she cant pitch like this. Thanks, sorry for such a long post.

What the glove is doing has NO effect on training an I/R release.........

IMO you need to start with the "lock it in" drill on the I/R in the classroom thread to allow her to "FEEL" what it's like to throw the ball underhand using Internal Rotation of the bicep, forearm and wrist WITHOUT the "distraction" of the rest of the mechanics such as the full arm circle, push from the plate etc.........You can do this drill with a football as well to start.........

Then move on to unlock it, or the 9:00 drill so she has more freedom without giving her too much space to incorporate her old mechanics..........
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
I'm sure as I've said in the past, Coach Phil is a good coach.......He just has no idea what he's doing with the I/R delivery method.......Plain and simple........And that my friend, it the title of this thread........
 
Trying to understand the two different approaches this might help you figure out who is correct. Again if this site has taught me one thing it is watch how the best actually do it slowly on video...video does not lie.

Coach Phil actually uses Ueno as an example of his "forearm fire" but I want you to watch the video for your self and focus on release which is what you said you were concerned about. The release takes place during frame :18 of the video she is basically open although beginning to close once her elbow locks in and is almost completely across her body but then her follow through extends the rest of her arm forward. You will see this too if you watch some Jennie Finch clinic video when she rares back and throws it she finish across her body but then during the follow through gives everyone watching the hello elbow finish. Here is the video for your enjoyment:

 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
Forearm fire.... LOL
nonsense. The whole point is to utilize all your tools. The stride, plant, arm circle, timing, elbow, wrist, and fingers all need to be in play. Forearm fire is elbow only. Pitching is NOT the art of throwing strikes, but rather the art of striking batters out. Movement is vital. Spin dictates movement. Without wrist and finger snap... no movement... this is why forearm fire is nonsense.
 
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