Internal Rotation

I've just finished reading this thread ( in particular Boardmember's post and description of the internal rotation mechanics) for about the tenth time and I believe that I am finally beginning to understand it. My 9 yo daughter just started pitching for the first time in the fall of last year so I'm still pretty new to fastpitch softball. We have visited with two different pitching coaches so far, one very highly regarded in the region and the other a current college D-III pitcher and both teach the "getting behind the ball" style. Could someone please explain in "fastpitch for dummies" type terms how the feet should be positioned for the two "drills" that Boardmember described so that I can fully understand and try it myself.

I'm a bit confused about this paragraph because it seems to be contradicting itself, at least based on my very limited understanding:

WITHOUT A BALL - Stand with your hips/shoulders/feet slightly more closed toward home, then fully open (toward third) to the target line. Do NOT stand completely open (shoulders inline with the target line) for this excercise. And do NOT stand more then 45 degree closed (toward the target line EVER).

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I'm sure that I'm reading this wrong but to me "slightly more closed toward home" would seem to be over 45 degrees closed yet Boardmember goes on to say not to stand more than 45 degrees closed.

Also, he says to "fully open" toward third but then says to NOT stand completely open. What am I missing here?

Thanks!

Tom

p.s. - this thread should be stickied to the top!!!

tomzpc said:

I'm a bit confused about this paragraph because it seems to be contradicting itself, at least based on my very limited understanding:


I'm sure that I'm reading this wrong but to me "slightly more closed toward home" would seem to be over 45 degrees closed yet Boardmember goes on to say not to stand more than 45 degrees closed.

Also, he says to "fully open" toward third but then says to NOT stand completely open. What am I missing here?

Thanks!

Tom

p.s. - this thread should be stickied to the top!!!

Click to expand...

Tom - I see the confusion with the quote and maybe BM can confirm it but my interpretation is that as long as you are doing this drill between 45 degrees or more open (but not as open as 90 degrees (or completely facing thrid) you are doing it correclty.

My DD does a drill with PC where she stands 45 degrees to home, BUT squares the shoulders completely closed to home, apparently to get used to "clearing the hip" for the pitch. She does her full wind-up, but keeps the lower body still for this drill. Clearly, this is not a IR drill. Any thoughts on the effectiveness of this drill?

Tom, a good rule of thumb for drills is for the RH pitcher to stand with the shoulders parallel to a point about 20-30ft. up the third baseline.....NOT FULLY FACING TOWARD THIRD BASE or HOME. Facing 3rd base would be fully open. Facing home would be fully closed........

Hope this clears it up.......

tomzpc said:

I've just finished reading this thread ( in particular Boardmember's post and description of the internal rotation mechanics) for about the tenth time and I believe that I am finally beginning to understand it. My 9 yo daughter just started pitching for the first time in the fall of last year so I'm still pretty new to fastpitch softball. We have visited with two different pitching coaches so far, one very highly regarded in the region and the other a current college D-III pitcher and both teach the "getting behind the ball" style. Could someone please explain in "fastpitch for dummies" type terms how the feet should be positioned for the two "drills" that Boardmember described so that I can fully understand and try it myself.

I'm a bit confused about this paragraph because it seems to be contradicting itself, at least based on my very limited understanding:


I'm sure that I'm reading this wrong but to me "slightly more closed toward home" would seem to be over 45 degrees closed yet Boardmember goes on to say not to stand more than 45 degrees closed.

Also, he says to "fully open" toward third but then says to NOT stand completely open. What am I missing here?

Thanks!

Tom

p.s. - this thread should be stickied to the top!!!

Click to expand...

BoardMember said:

Tom, a good rule of thumb for drills is for the RH pitcher to stand with the shoulders parallel to a point about 20-30ft. up the third baseline.....NOT FULLY FACING TOWARD THIRD BASE or HOME. Facing 3rd base would be fully open. Facing home would be fully closed........

Hope this clears it up.......

Click to expand...

Thanks BM. I have a stupid question though (yeah yeah I know, there are no stupid questions). I was imagining a slightly more open(facing third) position as opposed to a slightly more closed (facing home). When you say up the third baseline I think of coming from home towards third which would mean that I have it backwards. So just to make sure that I am finally understanding this, should the pitcher be slightly more open or slightly more closed?

Also, at the three o'clock position should the hand be literally palm straight up to the sky? When I go through the positions you described in the original post it feels more natural to me to have palm up but with a slight tilt down towards third.

And at the 11-12 o'clock "show it" position should the ball be facing the batter, facing third or somewhere in between?

By the way, my 9 yo daughter just began pitching in the fall. I wish that I came across and started to understand this thread before I started working with her. Since she has started with the hand behind the ball and snap the wrip school I feel like I have to break her down and start all over again. If you or anyone know of any instructors in the NY-CT area who "get it" when it comes to the IR mechanics I'd love to hear.

Thanks....Tom

tomzpc said:

And at the 11-12 o'clock "show it" position should the ball be facing the batter, facing third or somewhere in between?

By the way, my 9 yo daughter just began pitching in the fall. I wish that I came across and started to understand this thread before I started working with her. Since she has started with the hand behind the ball and snap the wrip school I feel like I have to break her down and start all over again. If you or anyone know of any instructors in the NY-CT area who "get it" when it comes to the IR mechanics I'd love to hear.

Thanks....Tom

Click to expand...

IMO, ball should be facing batter, hence the "show it" to the batter position. Tom, my situation is very similar to yours. DD pitching for 6 months, taught "bowling style" by PC. Recently, mentioned Internal Rotation to PC, who did not know the term but was willing to understand it. I sent her the link to this thread and she has been experimenting with it. We go back to her in a couple of weeks. The bottom-line is any PC worth beans, should be willing to have an open mind to learn and teach different pitching methods for each individual pitcher.

BM, lhowser, others - whether or not some "experts" on this board feel IR is a joke, I personally have gained much knowledge on proper pitching mechanics for my DD through your insightful comments and videos of IR. There is very little solid information out there on what really happens (or should happen) from 12'oclock to and through release. Keep up the good posts!

I notice two different styles but both finish with IR. Some of the young women like Ueno have the ball facing up on the downswing and some have the ball facing more toward third. All seem to finish with the internal rotation. Both my DD's have more of a toward third look. Should I work more on an upward facing ball?

It might have something to do with the type of pitch being thrown, for a rise or curve the hand would be under the ball more, for a topspin pitch (drop or fastball) the hand would be more on the side.

I agree with Armwhip, regarding the type of pitch determines the position of the hand going into the release zone. It's impractical to try to throw a rise starting with the hand/fingers behind or to the side of the ball -- you would be trying to roll the fingers around 3 sides of the ball (back, bottom, front) before release -- hardly achievable. So the hand needs to be open/under the ball approaching release. Same with the rollover drop -- just impossible to roll the ball over by pulling up the back side, over the top, and down the front. It's challenging enough to twist the ball on 2 planes, so start with the hand on the side or back.
jim

I'm struggling with the 3 o'clock drill with my young lefty. I'm pretty sure that I'm not positioning her feet properly. I'm also seeing movement in her shoulders. Should her shoulders stay parallel with her feet for purposes of the drill? If anyone has any video of the 3 and 12 o'clock drills, I think it would be a great contribution to the thread. Thanks.

Wow, after reading this a few times, I have second thoughts about my daughter's PC. He is teaching the "hello elbow" style. Keeping the wrist back until snap. I would like to try this out, she is 9 and has only been to about 8 lessons. I guess now is as good of a time as any to switch. I just dont want to confuse her. It sure seems the IR is FAR SIMPLER and has more potential. Any recomended coaches in Souther/Southeastern Indiana??