rise ball advice

Rich Balswick · Dec 19, 2012

halskinner said:
Go to Toys-R-Us. Buy a half regulation size football, the one that looks and feels like a real one, not a foam or plastic one.

Can you teach her to throw a football for a spiral? I know you can. Now have her pitch you a spiral with the football.

To pitch a football in a spiral requires you to bring the fingers to the inside of the ball. A perfect spiral like this will come in to the catcher in a fairly level line but the spiral spin will be angled slightly upwards.

See who can throw the best spiral.

You must bring the fingers to the inside of the softball for a good riseball. This alone will not get them 100% there, but it will get them most of the way there VERY qquickly.

Lets see how long it takes some of the other instructors out there to put this on their websites or videos. Should be a good race. Anybody got a stopwatch???

Hal

(I can't help myself today I guess in expressing some of my differences with you.) I hate the football drill ( except for quarterbacks ) for the riseball. IMO it gets young pitchers off on the wrong foot and tends to promote a spin axis that I spend untold hours on every day in which to get eliminated. IT IS THE "PLAGUE" (THE SPIRAL) TO SOFTBALL PITCHING!!

crystlemc · Dec 19, 2012

I think that if you are going to use a "tool" to work on the riseball, the double ball is your best bet. The weight of the top ball helps put your wrist and fingers into the proper position. Plus, it's great visual feedback.

Coach Stan · Dec 19, 2012

I know many instructors at there use the bent finger grip for a rise and for those who have a good size hand it works very well. I have a small hand and was not able to hold the ball with enough grip to spin the ball so I modified the grip to a 3 finger grip that allows for same spin and speed. Not having a lot of fingers on the ball allows for maximum spin and speed but you have to grip the ball first to pitch it. For those young ladys who have good size hands I show them the regular grip with a bent forefinger and allow them to work with it and if they find it works then we stay with it and if not we go to my modified grip.

CoachFP · Dec 19, 2012

Rich Balswick said:
Hal

(I can't help myself today I guess in expressing some of my differences with you.) I hate the football drill ( except for quarterbacks ) for the riseball. IMO it gets young pitchers off on the wrong foot and tends to promote a spin axis that I spend untold hours on every day in which to get eliminated. IT IS THE "PLAGUE" (THE SPIRAL) TO SOFTBALL PITCHING!!

Rich, not that I am trying to jump on your bandwagon again, but I totally agree with you. I like practicing with things that translate into the way a ball is actually thrown. Throwing a football underhand and a softball are totally different actions. Drills that have the pitcher on one knee or facing the catcher or throwing through their legs on one knee are all things that someone who never pitched came up with. I don't like long toss unless it is with the riseball because you have to change release angle for the other pitches and I believe it is counter productive. Walkthroughs are fine for about 10 throws and then start like you are pitching from a fixed position. We can't trick our students into becoming good pitchers. It is about doing things properly and consistently.

Hillhouse · Dec 19, 2012

To make a football spin with a spiral, will promote bullet spin when the same action is used with a softball. While I understand the concept, I just don't agree it's a helpful tool or technique. I don't care much for the spinner either.

If it's a SOFTBALL that she's actually going to throw in games, the sooner she gets the feel of throwing a SOFTBALL the better.

Bill

halskinner · Dec 19, 2012

crystlemc said:
I think that if you are going to use a "tool" to work on the riseball, the double ball is your best bet. The weight of the top ball helps put your wrist and fingers into the proper position. Plus, it's great visual feedback.

If I recall a recent post correctly, the use of a weighted ball; with an overload of over 20% was considered unsafe. Is a double ball considered to be a 100% overload??? Or is my math off?

parttimecatcher · Dec 19, 2012

Hal I have a 12 YO DD that started working on the rise about 3 months ago. Not really moving yet but spin is coming along as well as speed. I did try the double ball a few weeks ago for the first time and that was the only time she has complained about forearm/triceps pain. I have stopped using it but will give it another try after she has built up more strength with the muscles used in that pitch.

PTC

Hillhouse · Dec 19, 2012

Hal, while you're math is not wrong, it's not the same thing. It's not as though the ball is weighted down and just plain heavy, the weight of the top ball is used to help get the correct spin. So the weight is distributed in a very safe manner, IMO. It's not to be used full motion or full speed. Just to give INSTANT feedback on the spin of the ball and the momentum helps the process SOOOO much faster. I wish I had one when I was learning this, it took me YEARS to get even 1/2 backspin on the ball.

Then again, you're talking to someone who didn't realize there is a difference between a "bent finger rise" and any other kind. As if the grip makes for a different pitch. The SPIN is the absolute, the grip is up to the pitcher.

Bill

RubberBiscuit · Dec 19, 2012

parttimecatcher said:
Hal I have a 12 YO DD that started working on the rise about 3 months ago. Not really moving yet but spin is coming along as well as speed. I did try the double ball a few weeks ago for the first time and that was the only time she has complained about forearm/triceps pain. I have stopped using it but will give it another try after she has built up more strength with the muscles used in that pitch.

PTC

This goes back to my other comment in another thread => WE as a SB community shouldn't push heavier weights on bodies that are under-developed. I am very happy that I waited until my DD was 16 before training with weighted balls. This is NOT because I have any special smarts,... in fact in this case it's just dumb luck I didn't drive a weighted ball into DD's hands earlier....

(In my DD's case her 16th birthday was her time in her life where she became physically a "beast" and has fully matured bones & supporting muscle - I know it can vary)

knightsb · Dec 19, 2012

Gillis describes the fingers and the hand moving like snapping your fingers using your thumb and middle finger.

Stand in an open stance.
Place the back of your hand at your release point (approx your back pocket).
Snap your fingers.
Now place a ball in your hand.
Your middle finger and thumb across from each other on the ball.
Try the same motion snapping your fingers.
Your thumb will go back and down while your middle finger moves toward the target.

This finger snapping analogy helped my DD understand what her fingers and hand were trying to do.

rise ball advice

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