I/R in the Classroom

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Nov 12, 2013
417
18
maritimes
many thanks for the posts in this thread. my middle daughter loves to pitch and this forum is very helpful as i know nothing. youngest daughter now starting down same path but i feel better educated now.
 
Oct 24, 2012
75
6
PerfectGame, is this video good or bad? Am I just completely confused or is JF throwing with the Hello Elbow?
 

ThePerfectGame

Competitive by nature
Jan 24, 2014
2
0
DD11 and whom it might concern, I cannot draw the conclusion that it is good or bad, but clearly her success and experience speaks for itself, and the many others like her. To think that there is only one absolute correct way of pitching or coaching limits the mind, creativity, and opportunity. The motion should be authentic to each and every pitcher. No two pitchers are alike, but may share similar successes. The game wouldn't be nearly as interesting if it weren't this way. Pitching coaches are guides that help direct their students in what they feel is the easiest way to overall success, but it's up to the student to come into their own with desire, motivation, passion, and persistence. These are the true keys to good pitching.

Love the blog here, the perspective, & information. Don't like how it's scaring parents into believing that thousands of pitching coaches in America don't know what they're talking about. It's not right. Nor is it truth. Spread ideas, not lies. Internal rotation has been around since the beginning of pitching, it's not new. Nobody has reinvented the wheel here, but only over-complicated it. I love details and physics, but all this bio-mechanical jargon is unnecessary.

Never understood the controversy over the follow through as long as there is one. It happens after the snap and as long as there is proper whip and roll off the fingers, the results are going to be desirable. At this point you are comparing shades of gray for small potatoes.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
Glad you enjoy the blog here on Discuss Fastpich PG............There is a ton of knowledge here on the subject of fastpitch pitching........

Regarding Ms. Finch's video above. The simple fact is that there are "styles" of follow through........Jenny Finch "finishes" her way.......Others finish "their way"..........No one size fits all with regard to finish..........

But one thing is consistent with the very best in the world.........They THROW the softball underhand with INternal Rotation...........INCLUDING with Ms. Finch.......

There isn't anything "scary" about it..........Unless of course you are one of those who has no idea how a softball is thrown underhand, except for an educated or un-educated guess...........And then try to teach that "guess" to others..........Hoping one day they will fall into high level mechanics......Now that is a scary thought........Although is does happen from time to time.........

Some do.......But THE MAJORITY do not........Of the 10's of thousands of kids who begin their softball journey as hopeful pitchers........Very few of them get past Rec level with any success........Because they just didn't get it "naturally"..........And the people trusted with teaching them had no idea what they were teaching.......

Gaining a complete understanding of the throwing action that creates successful fastpitch pitchers, AND pitching coaches who actually know what they're talking about plays a pivotal role in a pitchers development. And it plays just as much of a role for a parent when choosing a PC who is qualified to teach fastpitch mechanics.........

And yes......It is a fact that there are THOUSANDS of PC's all over the globe who have NO CLUE how to throw a softball underhand........Even if they themselves can do it. Yet they continue to sell "smoke oil" to unsuspecting students and parents who trust them because they don't know any better............

The discussions on this board about INternal rotation have opened THOUSANDS OF EYES to the "rights" and "wrongs" of throwing a softball underhand..........And has helped MANY MANY parents either choose a PC who KNOWS and understands the basics of throwing underhand........And/Or has even allowed them to work with their own kids to develop mechanics that lead to a path of success much more often then failure........

What you seem to be missing.........Because you're late to "this party", is no one is debating follow through as a style.........

Lets be clear........The "Hello Elbow" pitching style that we rail about on this board has everything to do with being taught to PUSH THE BALL vs. WHIP THE BALL........Follow though has very little to do with that debate........Except to say that PUSHING THE BALL WILL result in a "hello elbow" finish.........So it can be an indicator of sub-optimal pitching instruction/mechanics......When the "cause/effect" is dictating the "result"........

Welcome to the "pitching section" of discuss fastpitch..........Always nice to have a new member.......Hopefully you'll be willing to share your own knowledge about the pitching motion since "this ain't nothin new" to you.........Because for many.........IT IS new to them..........Which is the purpose of teaching anything..........Because people are not "born" with the knowledge of everything that already "exists"..........

And hopefully your contributions won't be limited to "this ain't nothin new folks".........Because if it is......Your time here might be less enjoyable then it could/should be.........People here are really well versed in judging character and knowledge and motivation for posting in the first place.........

I look forward to your future contributions that help others understand/learn the basics, and high level mechanics of fastpitch softball.........

Feel free to start your own threads about pitching in order to share that knowledge.......Because that's what we're here for.........

This particular thread is about learning/understanding how to throw softball underhand using I/R, like the best in the world.........

Best Regards...........And sorry for the long post.........
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
Am I just completely confused or is JF throwing with the Hello Elbow?

I believe she and/or her father are credited for making the term widespread. I don't recall having seen her finish with HE in live pitching. If you watch the above video in slow mo, you'll see her follow through very naturally, then exaggerates the move to HE. For me, the forced follow through takes away from process of learning whip.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
To think that there is only one absolute correct way of pitching or coaching limits the mind, creativity, and opportunity.

One thing I think that could be added to the I/R in the classroom curriculum is a note on the value of good video in understanding, and reviewing what is actually going on with pitching. The motion is too fast for anyone to actually see what is going on. So time and again I run into coaches and parents who think their players/daughters pitch differently than they actually do because they think the kids actually are doing what the coach is saying, when the good ones are all doing some form of I/R.

PG-if you make a list of who you think the best 10 fast pitch pitchers in the world are and then seek out slo motion video, you will find the information in this thread. If you look at the best pitchers in your area and do the same you will see the information in this thread. I do it all the time with really young pitchers and so far ever time I see a pitcher that is successful in the circle the slo motion video shows the hand and arm mechanics in this thread, some more perfect with others, but all basically doing the same things.

If someone stumbles upon this thread and has doubts as to whether or not this is a "style" or "theory" that is on par with teaching that says to push the ball down the circle in more of a bowling motion, then I encourage you to just take video of pitchers you think are good in your area and take a look in slo motion and make your own decision.
 
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
TPG is not denying that arm whip exists, but approaches, such to what you call it or the progression in learning it are not absolutes. You don't have to tell someone their PC is clueless. And this is where you can lose people. I agree with everything TPG except allowing the HE ending to stay.

We need to look beyond what seems so critical at 8 years old that disappears by HS and stop meddling so much and overcoaching. Voices for a coaching style that make things easier, less complicated should be heard. I am not sure why we try and make things easier in life but when it comes to sports, making it harder is seen as some sign of success or knowledge. It is a hurdle to many kinds of learners.

Clearly you have never paid money to a pitching coach who taught "push the ball" down the circle and finish with the "back of the hand to the catcher", "grab the candy bar off your throwing shoulder after release", or perform isolated wrist snaps to "warm up the wrist muscles", etc.

BM's demonstrations are as simple as they get and yet reinforce correct mechanics. Why not try to understand and teach correct mechanics from Day 1 instead of ingraining bad mechanics for 5 years. When teaching a new player how to throw overhand, should we not teach correct throwing mechanics or just let them throw anyway they want until they get to high school?
 
Last edited:
Apr 30, 2011
180
18
Portland, Or
Clearly you have never paid money to a pitching coach who taught "push the ball" down the circle and finish with the "back of the hand to the catcher", "grab the candy bar off your throwing shoulder after release", or perform isolated wrist snaps to "warm of the wrist muscles", etc.

BM's demonstrations are as simple as they get and yet reinforce correct mechanics. Why not try to understand and teach correct mechanics from Day 1 instead of ingraining bad mechanics for 5 years. When teaching a new player how to throw overhand, should we not teach correct throwing mechanics or just let them throw anyway they want until they get to high school?

Don't forget lean forward and make a muscle
 

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