I/R in the Classroom

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Jan 4, 2012
3,852
38
OH-IO
Thankz ...Again for the video in this thread. I have asked before, not sure if it was you or not. I think it went into which way a PC is standing when explaining the orientation of the clock.

My question: "Is having the palm pointed towards 3rd base at 12:00-1:00 (pitchers time) helpful to serve as the negative motion to ignite the kentic chain ? I watched your video, but couldn't really determine for sure. I know that you were just showing us in as slow a motion as needed to make the clip, and us still see the action. I mean I know you would throw harder, faster ect... if you were in a game. I am encouraged because to me it lookz like it. Not sure if ignite is the right word ??? Anyway do you see it as a useful point in teaching I/R ???
 
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Jan 18, 2010
4,284
0
In your face
I think a lot of aggression comes from anyone who does a particular job or plays a certain sport or position for a great length of time, and someone else who has "different" views steps in with some valid points and people automatically get defensive and demand references. It's only human nature.

In my years I've seen some really talented pitchers who couldn't teach another to pitch to save their lives. I've also seen some poor pitchers who have the mental gift to teach others, even if their own physical performances were less than par. And then for example you have someone like Hillhouse who has been blessed with both abilities, a successful pitcher and teacher.

My friend who owns the baseball/softball academe here is a good example. He played 6 years in MLB as a LHP, great guy and great instructor. His son didn't inherit the physical abilities of his father, and was lucky to sign with a CC this year. ( tops out about 75 mph ) But his son has the teaching edge, he is very good for his age working with younger students. He really knows what he's doing and can relate his views and training methods that younger students require to absorb the information and retain it.
 
Nov 26, 2010
4,784
113
Michigan
I think a lot of aggression comes from anyone who does a particular job or plays a certain sport or position for a great length of time, and someone else who has "different" views steps in with some valid points and people automatically get defensive and demand references. It's only human nature.

In my years I've seen some really talented pitchers who couldn't teach another to pitch to save their lives. I've also seen some poor pitchers who have the mental gift to teach others, even if their own physical performances were less than par. And then for example you have someone like Hillhouse who has been blessed with both abilities, a successful pitcher and teacher.

My friend who owns the baseball/softball academe here is a good example. He played 6 years in MLB as a LHP, great guy and great instructor. His son didn't inherit the physical abilities of his father, and was lucky to sign with a CC this year. ( tops out about 75 mph ) But his son has the teaching edge, he is very good for his age working with younger students. He really knows what he's doing and can relate his views and training methods that younger students require to absorb the information and retain it.

This is true, some people the sport comes so easy for them they don't realize how hard it is for some others. So it seems to them that the student isn't trying, or isn't listening, or not working on things. The people who had to work hard to get good, they know how difficult it can be and they probably learned techniques and drills to learn what the naturally blessed just did right out of the gate.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
Not that he would ever have to submit a resume for his position to be valid but let me assure you, BoardMember's Resume is outstanding. As far back as when my child was 12, BoardMember has given pieces of advice to me and mine along our journey. Pretty sound advice! That includes my child being a pitcher, fielder and hitter.
 

Ken Krause

Administrator
Admin
May 7, 2008
3,911
113
Mundelein, IL
I'm having trouble getting my DD to do these drills. She does do internal rotation but her hand rolls over quickly at the release point. Her fastball is more of a rollover drop or curve depending on how much her hand rotates inward at release. It has great speed for her age and good movement. I think she would be much faster if I could get follow through. Is there any way to "quiet" her shoulder and hips down. She wants to snap shut/close the door.

Try this. Have her stand sideways, and extend her glove arm straight out away from her body, torward first or third (depending on whether she is left- or right-handed). Grasp her glove arm wrist, and have her lay her throwing arm over her glove arm. Then have her throw the pitch, holding her wrist while she throws the pitch. Tell her to drive straight into her front side. That will help her keep her front side in, which should keep her from trying to close.

Another thing I'll do as an instructor is to stand in front of the student and just off to her throwing-hand side and about six to eight feet in front. Then I'll have her throw the pitch. With me standing in the way she is forced to drive in straight instead of closing the door. You have to have some guts to do that, but I find they're usually pretty aware and don't want to plug me in the back. Sometimes to avoid hitting me they stride out to the glove side. If that happens, put an obstacle on that side too.

One last thing you can do if you have a long, narrow hallway, have her grab a rolled-up pair of socks and practice pitching in the hallway. She'll have to drive straight in or ouch!
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
I think a lot of aggression comes from anyone who does a particular job or plays a certain sport or position for a great length of time, and someone else who has "different" views steps in with some valid points and people automatically get defensive and demand references. It's only human nature.

GD, I read this very carefully........And I understand/agree this can happen from time to time as has been my experience for so many years on these forum boards.......

However, in my post, I wasn't asking anyone "why" some discussions get heated from time to time, nor was I intending to start a discussion IN THIS THREAD about the topic.....So I think you missed the point of my post entirely........

The bottom line is.......The following quote directed toward me does not even come close to matching your senario whereby someone is simply expressing "a different view with some valid points" to "someone who's been doing this for a long time".......And it cause a thread to be closed........

"So go for it BM and make it sound like you are the savior and expert on it. I asked if you were ever a pitcher and you never answered so I guess that means NO."

I'm sure you'll agree........

Like I said before, if someone wishes to discuss or debate philosophy, teaching methodology, or mechanics......Stick to the content and avoid soliciting negative reactionary responses by posting stupid garbage like that from Screwball.........

I don't want this thread to go any further down the road on this topic so we can keep it on the original topic......

Thx........And best regards........
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
Try this. Have her stand sideways, and extend her glove arm straight out away from her body, torward first or third (depending on whether she is left- or right-handed). Grasp her glove arm wrist, and have her lay her throwing arm over her glove arm. Then have her throw the pitch, holding her wrist while she throws the pitch. Tell her to drive straight into her front side. That will help her keep her front side in, which should keep her from trying to close.

Another thing I'll do as an instructor is to stand in front of the student and just off to her throwing-hand side and about six to eight feet in front. Then I'll have her throw the pitch. With me standing in the way she is forced to drive in straight instead of closing the door. You have to have some guts to do that, but I find they're usually pretty aware and don't want to plug me in the back. Sometimes to avoid hitting me they stride out to the glove side. If that happens, put an obstacle on that side too.

One last thing you can do if you have a long, narrow hallway, have her grab a rolled-up pair of socks and practice pitching in the hallway. She'll have to drive straight in or ouch!

Ken I use this with LOTS of students who either step OVER or to far away from the powerline........And yes......It takes a lot of guts to stand there RIGHT NEXT to your pitcher, and hold your ground, especially with 14yo's and above who might be throwing 60+........That's why I call it the "suicide drill".......It's "Coaches suicide"......

However.......I think NV was refering to the sudden stop and turnover at the hip even on fastball.........He'd like to see more of a relaxed/natural follow through after release........I don't think the hallway or the coaches "suicide drill" will stop the quick turnover/stopping of the arm and throwing hand at release........
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
The people who had to work hard to get good, they know how difficult it can be and they probably learned techniques and drills to learn what the naturally blessed just did right out of the gate.

This is very true........For me anyway.........And it's what started my journey to understand what made the greats GREAT......

And taking it to the NEXT LEVEL........To learn HOW TO TRANSLATE IT to others, as fast and as efficiently as possible.........
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
Thankz ...Again for the video in this thread. I have asked before, not sure if it was you or not. I think it went into which way a PC is standing when explaining the orientation of the clock.

My question: "Is having the palm pointed towards 3rd base at 12:00-1:00 (pitchers time) helpful to serve as the negative motion to ignite the kentic chain ? I watched your video, but couldn't really determine for sure. I know that you were just showing us in as slow a motion as needed to make the clip, and us still see the action. I mean I know you would throw harder, faster ect... if you were in a game. I am encouraged because to me it lookz like it. Not sure if ignite is the right word ??? Anyway do you see it as a useful point in teaching I/R ???

If I understand you correctly.......You are asking my opinion about the ball facing 3rd base at the top of the circle and whether that may help initiate/accelerate; a kinematic transfer of stored energy. The short answer is......Yes........The longer answer is......Not as well as facing the ball forward toward the catcher at the top.........Which I've found optimal, and have verified through slo-motion video of the best pitchers in the world.........AND personal experience in both pitching AND teaching pitching........

As I've stated many times, I don't believe in facing the ball toward 3rd at anytime during the arm circle.......Not on the way up........Not at the top......and not PURPOSELY at 9:00 (or 3:00) behind you..........

A more in depth understanding of what is happening when the ball is NOT facing forward can be found by investigating the SSC (stretch shortening cycle) and solicitation of smaller fast-twitch muscles reacting to "being out of position" to deliver the ball toward the target when it isn't in a position to do so as it approaches the release zone.........When the ball faces UP or out when approaching 9:00, you are in essence "loading/stretching" the structure at this point. The fast-twitch reaction that occurs to correct this position into and through release causes an acceleration toward the release goal........

Does that answer your question?
 
Jan 3, 2012
2
0
I am trying to teach my 13 year old daughter how to pitch using Internal Rotation. She has been pitching for 3 years using the elbow up follow through. But, during this past season, I noticed some girls seemed to pitch using a different technique, which lead me on a mission to find the right technique. Internal rotation seems like the answer as almost every college pitcher seems to pitch using that technique. But, trying to teach my daughter has not been easy, especially with the release. She has only perfected her fastball (palm up) and her change up (back flip), so teaching her this technique has been difficult as she can't understand how to release the ball.

Over the weekend, we took some videos (full motion, 12 oclock, old delivery, etc.

Here is a video of her release just doing the 12 oclock motion. Would love to hear what everyone thinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6nZt_CzpnI

Even though this isn't the proper thread, I would also like to know the proper way to download a video on a thread.

Thanks.

John
 
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