Chris O'Leary: My Approach and What I Believe

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Oct 12, 2009
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I think it's time that I create a thread where I discuss what I believe and why.

Here are some thoughts on my point of view...

1. There is tremendous overlap between what I teach and what Paul Nyman came up with in terms of hitting and what Steve Englishbey is now teaching.[1] I don't know if the overlap is 100%, but it's probably at least 95%. For instance, I use the PCRW framework as the basis for organizing my thoughts, but with some extensions. The main difference between Nyman, Englishbey, and me largely comes down to HOW we teach things. I am deliberately trying to keep things very easy to understand and stay out of the weeds (e..g most of the physics)

2. I have a lot of respect for Mike Epstein. He was the first guy to see the right path. However, I believe it's been proven that there are limits to what Epstein teaches and how. However, I am still influenced by his approach to teaching; things such as focusing on the bare minimum number of drills.

3. I have a lot of respect for Howard Carrier. The guy knows how to produce good swings.

4. I believe in the running start, which is an idea that came from outside the Nyman, PCRW school but that is compatible with it.

5. I am unimpressed by the work coming out of Hitting Illustrated. I think the good stuff that HI folks talks about is largely just a rehash and rebranding of Nyman's PCRW stuff. For instance, where Nyman says "tilt" HI says "lateral tilt" and where Nyman says "separation" HI says "spatial separation". That's not originality. When it comes to original HI ideas, like early batspeed, the swivel, and the second engine, I think they are demonstrably wrong.

[1] If you know about Nyman and my relationship, you know that we despise each other (largely due to disagreements over baseball pitching). However, that doesn't change my belief that Nyman did a pretty thorough job of understanding and describing the high level swing.
 
Last edited:
Oct 23, 2009
967
0
Los Angeles
I think it's time that I create a thread where I discuss what I believe and why.

Here are some thoughts on my point of view...

1. There is tremendous overlap between what I teach and what Paul Nyman came up with in terms of hitting and what Steve Englishbey is now teaching.[1] I don't know if the overlap is 100%, but it's probably at least 95%. For instance, I use the PCRW framework as the basis for organizing my thoughts, but with some extensions. The main difference between Nyman, Englishbey, and me largely comes down to HOW we teach things. I am deliberately trying to keep things very easy to understand and stay out of the weeds (e..g most of the physics)

2. I have a lot of respect for Mike Epstein. He was the first guy to see the right path. However, I believe it's been proven that there are limits to what Epstein teaches and how. However, I am still influenced by his approach to teaching; things such as focusing on the bare minimum number of drills.

3. I have a lot of respect for Howard Carrier. The guy knows how to produce good swings.

4. I believe in the running start, which is an idea that came from outside the Nyman, PCRW school but that is compatible with it.

5. I am unimpressed by the work coming out of Hitting Illustrated. I think the good stuff that HI folks talks about is largely just a rehash and rebranding of Nyman's PCRW stuff. For instance, where Nyman says "tilt" HI says "lateral tilt" and where Nyman says "separation" HI says "spatial separation". That's not originality. When it comes to original HI ideas, like early batspeed, the swivel, and the second engine, I think they are demonstrably wrong.

[1] If you know about Nyman and my relationship, you know that we despise each other (largely due to disagreements over baseball pitching). However, that doesn't change my belief that Nyman did a pretty thorough job of understanding and describing the high level swing.

Thanks Chris. This is exactly the type of background and frame of reference that I was looking for in my original post so I (we) can better understand where each of you are coming from, learn from you (others), and ultimately help our DDs and players become better, more efficient hitters. Now I need to go look-up and review "PCRW", Howard, Nyman, Englishbey, Epstein, HI, and your old posts, etc......
 
Oct 12, 2009
1,463
0
I should add that IMO the only thing that has come out of HI that I think is better than what has come out of the PCRW world is the idea of The Triangle. This is that same as the idea of The Box, but it's much easier to consistently see The Triangle than it is to see The Box.
 
T

theaddition

Guest
I should add that IMO the only thing that has come out of HI that I think is better than what has come out of the PCRW world is the idea of The Triangle. This is that same as the idea of The Box, but it's much easier to consistently see The Triangle than it is to see The Box.

examples please
 
Oct 12, 2009
1,463
0
Jack Mankin is another person I should mention as an influence. I like most of his work except for his idea of Top Hand Torque (THT).

I've never seen evidence for THT in a good swing. Instead, I see just the opposite, which is holding the hinge angle.
 
Oct 12, 2009
1,463
0
examples please

Broadly speaking, The Box is the shape made by the shoulders, the front elbow, and the hands. However, it's going to vary and change shape depending on whether a hitter has to make an adjustment or not (which is why it can be hard to visualize since it is only rarely actually shaped like a box).

The Triangle is made up of the front and back elbows and the knob of the bat. In a good swing, the triangle pretty much stays the same shape from launch through the POC. If you watch my clip of Pujols...

V_H_HD_BB_Public_AlbertPujols_1B_HR_ToLCF_09-001_UpperBody_60FPS_23-32_R.gif


...you will see that his elbows and hands maintain pretty much the same relationship to each other.

You can see the same basic thing in my Megan Bush clip...

V_H_HD_FPS_Public_MeganBush_1B_HR_ToLF_09-071_60FPS_UpperBody_40-55_R.gif
 
Feb 16, 2010
454
0
Nashua, NH
Chris, are you a member at hittingillustrated.com? If so, how long? If not, how do you know the information there? Both in this thread and on your website, you go out of your way to attack HI, which is interesting to me.
 
Oct 12, 2009
1,463
0
Chris, are you a member at hittingillustrated.com? If so, how long? If not, how do you know the information there? Both in this thread and on your website, you go out of your way to attack HI, which is interesting to me.

It's very easy to gain an understanding of what is taught at HI, if you know where to look, because most of the key tenets have made their way out into the open at one point or another.

Also, I'm plainly not attacking HI, just offering an opinion.
 
Feb 16, 2010
454
0
Nashua, NH
It's very easy to gain an understanding of what is taught at HI, if you know where to look, because most of the key tenets have made their way out into the open at one point or another.

Also, I'm plainly not attacking HI, just offering an opinion.

Oh Really? Based on your evaluation, I feel comfortable saying you don't understand the information. And yes, I am a member at HI. I am also an independent thinker... weird. Oh, I played the game too.

Rehash = Something different.


Here's a quote I ran across recently:
"An expert is a man (or a Lynelle) who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field." ~ Niels Bohr
 

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