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Thread: Core or torso usage

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    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Default Core or torso usage

    5frames,

    When you talk about the torso, do you think it's more important (torso) then what many might think of using the hips?
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Shawn, I believe many are confused when they teach "hips".

    What I refer to as the torso-engine, others refer to as the 'hips'. They see me demonstrate what I do and nod their head in agreement ... they think that's what they refer to as the 'hips'. I see them work with their hitters on the notion of 'hips' and they are purely interested in the hips moving forward horizontally. When they see my students torso become twisted as they twitch, they think that is the 'hips' ... but it is the 'torso'.

    To answer your question ... yes, I believe getting the torso correct is much more important than what many consider to be the 'hips'.

    That said, the 'hips' are part of the 'torso' ... so when you get the 'torso' correct, you tend to get the 'hips' correct ... which is why many will see me demonstrate the 'torso-engine' and translate that to their version of 'hips'.

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    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    5frames,

    I'm reading the Catapult system and watching his video. He teaches that it's not all about the hips. He teaches spinal engine and stretching the shoulders.

    What are the movements in the torso engine you teach?

    I'll get back to the spinal engine and Myers views.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    I can talk softball all day Rolling Hard's Avatar
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    FFS, in your torso engine, does the engine pull or push or both. I think I know the answer. What muscle group fires first. Would it be the obliques and transverse abs on the bottom hand side? Or do they all fire at the same time? Is the rear leg follow or lead?

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    I have always thought this was an interesting video....


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    I can talk softball all day Mudders Brudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    5frames,

    I'm reading the Catapult system and watching his video. He teaches that it's not all about the hips. He teaches spinal engine and stretching the shoulders.

    What are the movements in the torso engine you teach?

    I'll get back to the spinal engine and Myers views.
    Just curious, is this the video or one of them that you're watching?

    (not sure why it wouldn't load here...)

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    I can talk softball all day Rolling Hard's Avatar
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    I have the book, too! Its OK. Some good stuff. I am not that fond of his style of writing. He says you don't rotate hips during the load, you just show your numbers/ hide hands. "I,m sorry coaches, if you think that a hitter loads by inwardly turning the hips towards the catcher.... this isn't optimized loading and your hitters are leaving consistent power on the table." But when you see him swing (which is not that pretty) his hips do rotate during load. I am not advocating for for a big hip turn back but I do think they more some naturally.

    He also has some weird experiments and some stuff on finger/ grip pressure I don't understand or buy into. Spinal engine is torso engine. Just another name.

    I am going to reread soon. I usually find the good stuff second time thru.

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    I can talk softball all day jryan15's Avatar
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    Rotation in a high level swing is almost all a function of the rear-side glutes working against a coiled rear leg. When the rear hip is coiled it creates a misaligment that is automatically resolved when the glutes fire to extend the hip. That is the beautiful simplicity of the high level swing... If you coil and you can maintain it while allowing the rear glute to fire the hip into extension, you will rotate perfectly. The core and back are supplemental as they interacting with the glutes.

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    I can talk softball all day Mudders Brudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Hard View Post
    I have the book, too! Its OK. Some good stuff. I am not that fond of his style of writing. He says you don't rotate hips during the load, you just show your numbers/ hide hands. "I,m sorry coaches, if you think that a hitter loads by inwardly turning the hips towards the catcher.... this isn't optimized loading and your hitters are leaving consistent power on the table." But when you see him swing (which is not that pretty) his hips do rotate during load. I am not advocating for for a big hip turn back but I do think they more some naturally.

    He also has some weird experiments and some stuff on finger/ grip pressure I don't understand or buy into. Spinal engine is torso engine. Just another name.

    I am going to reread soon. I usually find the good stuff second time thru.
    Thanks for the info. I'm just gonna say that I had a hard time getting past the very first drill he was having the kids do, and the position they all ended up in at the end of it that he thought was good or correct. Think I'll just leave it at that though since I've not read the book, and don't want to base my complete opinion on one or two drills he might show in a 30 minute demo/promo of his program...but can I just say, "EEK!"?

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    I can talk softball all day Rolling Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jryan15 View Post
    Rotation in a high level swing is almost all a function of the rear-side glutes working against a coiled rear leg. When the rear hip is coiled it creates a misaligment that is automatically resolved when the glutes fire to extend the hip. That is the beautiful simplicity of the high level swing... If you coil and you can maintain it while allowing the rear glute to fire the hip into extension, you will rotate perfectly. The core and back are supplemental as they interacting with the glutes.
    What muscles fire first. Glute pushing or obliques pulling? same time?

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