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Thread: Core or torso usage

  1. #11
    I can talk softball all day jryan15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Hard View Post
    What muscles fire first. Glute pushing or obliques pulling? same time?
    Muscles don't push. I'm not really trying to get into sequence stuff, I'm just explaining how the rotation happens since I don't think it has ever been explained in this manner. A lot of people know the criticality of coil, staying back (to not lose coil), launching rearward, etc because this leads to good execution, but at a fundamental level, I don't think many people understood how it worked.

    The key to the high level swing is the interaction between rear hip coil and the firing of the glutes. Without the coil, the glutes will just thrust the hips (no rotation) therefore the rotational element, which is required to get the bat into the zone, will need to come from other sources like spinal (shoulders), core torque (hips), front leg pushback (push-block), etc.

    Hopefully this knowledge will shift people's thinking and lead to some changes in how the swing is taught.

  2. #12
    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Hard View Post
    I have the book, too! Its OK. Some good stuff. I am not that fond of his style of writing. He says you don't rotate hips during the load, you just show your numbers/ hide hands. "I,m sorry coaches, if you think that a hitter loads by inwardly turning the hips towards the catcher.... this isn't optimized loading and your hitters are leaving consistent power on the table." But when you see him swing (which is not that pretty) his hips do rotate during load. I am not advocating for for a big hip turn back but I do think they more some naturally.
    He wants the hips to remain parallel to the plate so you can load.stretch against them. If everything is moving backwards, hips and shoulders turning inward, then the stretch will have to much slop.

    He also has some weird experiments and some stuff on finger/ grip pressure I don't understand or buy into. Spinal engine is torso engine. Just another name.

    I am going to reread soon. I usually find the good stuff second time thru.
    He explains the finger pressure as connecting the top hand/back arm to the body/core. He also talks about how the bottom fingers are your power fingers if you want to hit something like in martial arts. He claims it corrects bat drag.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

  3. #13
    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudders Brudder View Post
    Just curious, is this the video or one of them that you're watching?

    (not sure why it wouldn't load here...)
    No, the video I'm watching is his Catapult loading system on his website. It does have a drills section and the same drills are shown as in the video you posted. The video I'm watching is the video version of his book, costs 47 dollars.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

  4. #14
    Bacon Buttermaker's Avatar
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    Are we (as a discussion board) in agreement that the top half and bottom half meet at the hip joint?

  5. #15
    I can talk softball all day Rolling Hard's Avatar
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    ok. I am a stretch, pull= obliques / push - glute/ throw - flat left wrist and launch barrei guy. pretty much in that order. Some could do it differently but getting to contact synchronized is the goal.

  6. #16
    I can talk softball all day jryan15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttermaker View Post
    Are we (as a discussion board) in agreement that the top half and bottom half meet at the hip joint?
    I agree, but there are some contextual instances that will probably muddy the water.

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    Softball Junkie Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Shawn, I believe many are confused when they teach "hips".

    What I refer to as the torso-engine, others refer to as the 'hips'. They see me demonstrate what I do and nod their head in agreement ... they think that's what they refer to as the 'hips'. I see them work with their hitters on the notion of 'hips' and they are purely interested in the hips moving forward horizontally. When they see my students torso become twisted as they twitch, they think that is the 'hips' ... but it is the 'torso'.

    To answer your question ... yes, I believe getting the torso correct is much more important than what many consider to be the 'hips'.

    That said, the 'hips' are part of the 'torso' ... so when you get the 'torso' correct, you tend to get the 'hips' correct ... which is why many will see me demonstrate the 'torso-engine' and translate that to their version of 'hips'.
    What do you consider torso? Back knee to back shoulder?

  8. #18
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    What do you consider torso? Back knee to back shoulder?
    Jim Dixon Sr: Take off the shoulders and the arms, the neck, head, and the legs from the crotch down and call what's left the Torso. The Torso includes the back, sides, stomach, buttocks, chest, and upper thighs.

  9. #19
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Hard View Post
    FFS, in your torso engine, does the engine pull or push or both. I think I know the answer. What muscle group fires first. Would it be the obliques and transverse abs on the bottom hand side? Or do they all fire at the same time? Is the rear leg follow or lead?
    The torso-engine pulls.

  10. #20
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    5frames,

    I'm reading the Catapult system and watching his video. He teaches that it's not all about the hips. He teaches spinal engine and stretching the shoulders.

    What are the movements in the torso engine you teach?

    I'll get back to the spinal engine and Myers views.
    Shawn, watch the video segment below of TM working with a student. The advantage of this demonstration is that the student has a decent sense of body awareness to mimic what he is instructed to do and follows up with a description of a feel.

    Notice the student's first demo. Not very good. Sort of a backside based rotation. Horrible. Notice TM's instruction. Compare the student's first demo to his second demo ... huge improvement! Go back and forth between the student's two demos. The differences in the two demos are huge. Pay attention to detail ... including front oblique usage, etc. Also pay attentions to the student's description of the 'feel'.

    The lower rear back scrunch/arch/stretch is one of four check points I look for in terms of proper torso usage.


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