have to travel fast enough to arrive before the ball leaves the bat. In the example you give, both of these things (wave speed and ball-bat contact time) would change as a beam with a fixed
end would have different modes with different wave speeds than a bat. There also wouldn't be any hoop modes but that isn't relevant for the grip question. In his example, at least he was using a bat so only one of those things would have changed, contact time.
The mass/strength of the hitter and the mass of ball would certainly change what the swing looks post impact, I gave that example previously when I mentioned the heavy
Last edited by pattar; 01-11-2019 at 12:04 PM.
I agree. A study on clamped aluminum beams and rubber balls is not a very good comparison for determining what happens in a baseball vs. bat collision.
It would be fun to study 23oz free bats propelled 63 MPH at 7oz. softballs traveling 55MPH. We know what would happen in the unlikely occasion they made black out contact. I wonder if the ball would 'win the war' and spin the bat on handle and end of bat contact.
I only ask because none of us are trying to "argue against scientific evidence". In fact here's the summary of the report that Eric referenced, and that you said Professor Nathan told you something different in person wrt...
...where basically in the bold underlined; he concluded that "the exit speed of the ball [is] essentially independent of the....method of support of the bat" (ie. the grip).Originally Posted by Dynamics of the baseball–bat collision - Alan M. Nathan (2000)
I believe that you might have misunderstood that he was talking about the "sweet spot" ("rigid-body value only over a very small region in the barrel of the bat"), and how the numbers when not hitting the ball there "drops off sharply"...but that the moment of impact happens so quickly, that the "vibrations excited" from the contact of the barrel to ball "determining the ball exit speed vf"...happens so fast "that the handle of the bat has barely started to react to the impulse by the time the momentum transferred to the ball is complete", and therefore, the player's grip ("support method") on the bat "at distances far removed from the impact location"...is "essentially independent" of these collision vibrations that determine the exit velocity of bat to ball.
This is why Frazier was able to sit hit the ball out of the park w/o still holding the bat in his hands at contact, because "theoretically" (as I read it, pattar might interpret it otherwise), the impact vibrations generated at the moment of contact with the ball that where created by his bat speed into the ball at that exact moment...weren't able to transfer down the handle fast enough before the ball had already left contact with the ball to effect the "exit velocity" of the ball additionally or negatively regardless of grip (or even no grip) on the bat.
Of course not...just like it would be more likely that Todd was standing at the plate with half a bat in his hands had the ball hit the handle than it would be that the ball left the park...if he had whatever vise grip he would have had on the bat at the time.Do you think the ball would have left the park if it hit a 'no hands' handle?
Which I believe can also be concluded from Nathan's study of impact locations on the bat, and the resulting "vibrations excited" by these differing locations and the corresponding exit velocities from each of them....as it was more than likely those "vibrations excited" close to the handle would be taken into account for some of the degradation, and subsequent shearing of the bat that would leave him left holding only the handle in his hands if/when contact is made there.
Yes, now this we are in agreement on, and what I was eluding to in my first reply to your statement wrt what you interpreted Nathan saying to you at one time.Grip also matters when trying to efficiently generate bat speed.
EDIT: One last thought that may or may not play into the conversation, only because an assumptive correlation (probably more like two) has been made but not actually tested...and that's that a softball contact with a bat is or would be the same as that of the tested baseball to bat collision...and that the "vibrations excited" within metal alloy bats are the same (or similar) as to those of the tested wood bats. I'll just leave it at that.
Last edited by Mudders Brudder; 01-11-2019 at 01:14 PM.
Eric F (01-11-2019)
Last edited by pattar; 01-11-2019 at 02:15 PM.