1st year 14u - Swing mechanics what to work on

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fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
No judgement here my man. You guys are working hard, posting vid, and trying to get better. That’s awesome in itself.

IMO she’s turning less and pulling/pushing more witch accounts for the increase, muscling up. The turn in the old clip needed work as well though.

Two things to think about:
- Dont underestimate the neckslot. It took me years to realize its significance. When the handset is in a good position, turning becomes simple and smooth.
- I would recommend always videoing in full speed. It shows a lot more. You can tell what powers the swing by seeing it in real time.

Good luck

Also, i missed this, when you say 'Turning less' do you mean on the back swing or when she is coming forward for contact?
 
Dec 4, 2013
865
18
It’s about barrel turn. Barrel turn is first and foremost. If you dont turn the barrel correctly the rest doesn’t matter. If you learn to turn the barrel correctly you are going to see instant improvement.

When learning barrel turn get rid of everything else. Ditch the stride. Ditch the momentum. Ditch the personalized handset.

Just put barrel in your neckslot and turn it to the ball.

When you build a house you build the foundation first. It might be boring, might not be glamorous. You just lay block by block down.

IMO your DD needs to learn how to turn the barrel. It will be very difficult to learn if she is striding/loading/tipping/turning/etc.

Make it vanilla for her.

I used to be in a hurry, and try to teach hitters to coil, stretch, turn the barrel all at the same time. I would mostly end up with confused hitters. In my experience things go Soooooo much quicker by mastering barrel turn first. Nothing else until that is mastered.

Simplifying things goes a long way.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
It’s about barrel turn. Barrel turn is first and foremost. If you dont turn the barrel correctly the rest doesn’t matter. If you learn to turn the barrel correctly you are going to see instant improvement.

When learning barrel turn get rid of everything else. Ditch the stride. Ditch the momentum. Ditch the personalized handset.

Just put barrel in your neckslot and turn it to the ball.

When you build a house you build the foundation first. It might be boring, might not be glamorous. You just lay block by block down.

IMO your DD needs to learn how to turn the barrel. It will be very difficult to learn if she is striding/loading/tipping/turning/etc.

Make it vanilla for her.

I used to be in a hurry, and try to teach hitters to coil, stretch, turn the barrel all at the same time. I would mostly end up with confused hitters. In my experience things go Soooooo much quicker by mastering barrel turn first. Nothing else until that is mastered.

Simplifying things goes a long way.

Thanks again, i truly appreciate the feedback. I have basically let my daughter get by for the last few years because she was good enough to hit over 500 at the mediocre ball she played at. But last year anytime she faced better pitching she was significantly worse. So i am truly just trying to get her better for the older/better competition.

That being said, the reason why i question this focus is that we had a girl who was being coached to start with her barrel flat and facing the catcher. I did not ask too many questions but intuitively it did not work as it seemed to start from a static position and didn't get a running start as some say. This neckslot drill reminds me of that and as i try to figure out the definition of 'TTB', i just didn't think that was it. I think of that neckslot position as the start of the third phase of the barrel path (upper body only). Phase 1. Starting with a 'negative move' (barrel tipped forward/scap loading/front shoulder to rear hip), Phase 2. Snapping or pulling of wrists/forearms/slotting of rear elbow (whichever you prefer - still trying to figure out what direction barrel should drop towards) to initiate Barrel turning back over shoulder or some direction away from where it started (this to me in my limited knowledge feels like the 'Barrel Turn') Connection of Phase 2 and phase 3 brings the barrel from vertical to a horizontal (on plane) swing directed at the incoming ball. Phase 3 - an already on plane swing after phases 1 and 2 starting in front of the shoulder.

So the reason i just can't feel this drill is that having the bat on the shoulder is putting the barrel in a negative phase 3 without ever having a vertical drop and 'turn' of the barrel.

i would like to think i could piece the swing together and do each motion individually, but it feels like without the Phase 1 and 2, Phase 3 is just a normal non-motivated swing.

Sorry to be so verbose, i just really think this barrel turn is key and want to understand what my DD is doing wrong. And in the last few weeks, putting it together like i listed above has seemed to help more.

I have been working with her at pitching too, and feel your commentary on building the foundation to be spot on, so i am not dismissing that, i am just struggling with it.

As i look at her swing it seems maybe her hands are too far away from her torso which limits the barrel turn. Not sure if you think that would help focusing on that as well.

Again much appreciated for the insight as my DD wouldn't have made it past 10u without this site.
 
Last edited:
Dec 4, 2013
865
18
Thanks again, i truly appreciate the feedback. I have basically let my daughter get by for the last few years because she was good enough to hit over 500 at the mediocre ball she played at. But last year anytime she faced better pitching she was significantly worse. So i am truly just trying to get her better for the older/better competition.

That being said, the reason why i question this focus is that we had a girl who was being coached to start with her barrel flat and facing the catcher. I did not ask too many questions but intuitively it did not work as it seemed to start from a static position and didn't get a running start as some say. This neckslot drill reminds me of that and as i try to figure out the definition of 'TTB', i just didn't think that was it. I think of that neckslot position as the start of the third phase of the barrel path (upper body only). Phase 1. Starting with a 'negative move' (barrel tipped forward/scap loading/front shoulder to rear hip), Phase 2. Snapping or pulling of wrists/forearms/slotting of rear elbow (whichever you prefer - still trying to figure out what direction barrel should drop towards) to initiate Barrel turning back over shoulder or some direction away from where it started (this to me in my limited knowledge feels like the 'Barrel Turn') Connection of Phase 2 and phase 3 brings the barrel from vertical to a horizontal (on plane) swing directed at the incoming ball. Phase 3 - an already on plane swing after phases 1 and 2 starting in front of the shoulder.

So the reason i just can't feel this drill is that having the bat on the shoulder is putting the barrel in a negative phase 3 without ever having a vertical drop and 'turn' of the barrel.

i would like to think i could piece the swing together and do each motion individually, but it feels like without the Phase 1 and 2, Phase 3 is just a normal non-motivated swing.

Sorry to be so verbose, i just really think this barrel turn is key and want to understand what my DD is doing wrong. And in the last few weeks, putting it together like i listed above has seemed to help more.

I have been working with her at pitching too, and feel your commentary on building the foundation to be spot on, so i am not dismissing that, i am just struggling with it.

As i look at her swing it seems maybe her hands are too far away from her torso which limits the barrel turn. Not sure if you think that would help focusing on that as well.

Again much appreciated for the insight as my DD wouldn't have made it past 10u without this site.

That seems like an awful lot to me.

It can be as simple as turn the barrel perpendicularly around your forearm.

The neck slot has a bad stigma for some reason. Maybe people picture the kid from their childhood who didn't want to be there, stood straight up in the box, laid the bat on his shoulder, and wasn't ready to swing.

Neckslot puts kids in a position to turn the barrel from. Once my kids learn to turn the barrel from the neckslot most of them end up keeping that handset.

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Here is a couple hitter's who work out of the neckslot area and whose barrels don't do all that much before "Go".
 
Last edited:
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
It’s about barrel turn. Barrel turn is first and foremost. If you dont turn the barrel correctly the rest doesn’t matter. If you learn to turn the barrel correctly you are going to see instant improvement.

When learning barrel turn get rid of everything else. Ditch the stride. Ditch the momentum. Ditch the personalized handset.

Just put barrel in your neckslot and turn it to the ball.

When you build a house you build the foundation first. It might be boring, might not be glamorous. You just lay block by block down.

IMO your DD needs to learn how to turn the barrel. It will be very difficult to learn if she is striding/loading/tipping/turning/etc.

Make it vanilla for her.

I used to be in a hurry, and try to teach hitters to coil, stretch, turn the barrel all at the same time. I would mostly end up with confused hitters. In my experience things go Soooooo much quicker by mastering barrel turn first. Nothing else until that is mastered.

Simplifying things goes a long way.

I agree with the notion of building the foundation first. That's why I start with the torso-engine.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
That seems like an awful lot to me.

It can be as simple as turn the barrel perpendicularly around your forearm.

The neck slot has a bad stigma for some reason. Maybe people picture the kid from their childhood who didn't want to be there, stood straight up in the box, laid the bat on his shoulder, and wasn't ready to swing.

Neckslot puts kids in a position to turn the barrel from. Once my kids learn to turn the barrel from the neckslot most of them end up keeping that handset.

zNCzhdY.gif
[/IMG]
iOzODEr.gif
[/IMG]
mPU0d67.gif
[/IMG]
Fr6TEat.gif
[/IMG]

Here is a couple hitter's who work out of the neckslot area and whose barrels don't do all that much before "Go".

Thank you again for the response. As i have only recently started researching the swing in depth, i am not familiar enough to question these swings. I recognize the hitters, but my first question would be, that Bonds gif is older, all recent videos i have seen have him dipping/tipping his hands as his first move. Or am i thinking of the wrong thing?

Ultimately i guess the question i have is, is the neck slot move the High Level Swing mechanics? or is it just a portion of the swing that you would call the foundation that you need to work from? Is this the final ideal swing style you want your (and any coach) hitter to have?

Again, i am trying to figure out if i am wrong working towards a tip/hip coil - snap back/torso engine - on plane swing with adjustability? The tip and pull/snap back of barrel being the part in question which i feel gets the barrel set. Or is the neck slot the most adjustable swing?

The neckslot swing reminds me of a trebuchet in a single plane with little adjustability other than getting the whole torso/body tilted and pointed at the correct plane before release. and by release here i just mean the hands start pulling (with torso engine) the bat like the trebuchet.

The last neck slot swing action always seemed like the non-teach, the teaching part was how to set up and get going or whatever hand/body positions needed to be addressed.

i have missed the years and years of forums and commentary (at least on the hitting side - as i have read all the pitching stuff i think 2x) and am not locked into any specific words. to me the exact physical descriptive action that takes place is more than enough for me to try and understand.

And in the words i would use, turning the barrel to me is the action of the barrel changing course from vertically dropping backwards to being pulled into a horizontal plane(figuratively more than literally as it may not be exactly vertical nor may it be exactly horizontal - but from an upwards pointing to a outwards/forwards away from the body swing plane.) And the turn to me is this looping action that is happening at this intersection of up to out. The neckslot action to me is just the on plane swing as a result of the intitial parts. .

Again, i am not purposefully trying to be obtuse. If you feel the foundation (neck slot swing) is not happening in my DD's swing, i will work on it. I just assumed the combination of the turning barrel phases as i describe them may be causing that to happen, and that the neckslot swing may be already good, but other mechanics need to be fixed.

Thank you again for the insightful feedback.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
I agree with the notion of building the foundation first. That's why I start with the torso-engine.

Thanks Five, can you describe to me the part of the torso engine that isn't working in my DD's swing and what to work on? ie, back knee externally rotating too much, keep rear knee in during coil. Turn front should in more to attain more stretch from back rear hip to backside of front shoulder. Hold torso/shoulders back longer before initiating snap, Externally rotate front leg before toe touch to initiate something, etc etc.

just looking for the specific under positioning or over positioning she is in at certain points in the movement.

Thanks again.
 
Dec 4, 2013
865
18
Thank you again for the response. As i have only recently started researching the swing in depth, i am not familiar enough to question these swings. I recognize the hitters, but my first question would be, that Bonds gif is older, all recent videos i have seen have him dipping/tipping his hands as his first move. Or am i thinking of the wrong thing?

Ultimately i guess the question i have is, is the neck slot move the High Level Swing mechanics? or is it just a portion of the swing that you would call the foundation that you need to work from? Is this the final ideal swing style you want your (and any coach) hitter to have?

Again, i am trying to figure out if i am wrong working towards a tip/hip coil - snap back/torso engine - on plane swing with adjustability? The tip and pull/snap back of barrel being the part in question which i feel gets the barrel set. Or is the neck slot the most adjustable swing?

The neckslot swing reminds me of a trebuchet in a single plane with little adjustability other than getting the whole torso/body tilted and pointed at the correct plane before release. and by release here i just mean the hands start pulling (with torso engine) the bat like the trebuchet.

The last neck slot swing action always seemed like the non-teach, the teaching part was how to set up and get going or whatever hand/body positions needed to be addressed.

i have missed the years and years of forums and commentary (at least on the hitting side - as i have read all the pitching stuff i think 2x) and am not locked into any specific words. to me the exact physical descriptive action that takes place is more than enough for me to try and understand.

And in the words i would use, turning the barrel to me is the action of the barrel changing course from vertically dropping backwards to being pulled into a horizontal plane(figuratively more than literally as it may not be exactly vertical nor may it be exactly horizontal - but from an upwards pointing to a outwards/forwards away from the body swing plane.) And the turn to me is this looping action that is happening at this intersection of up to out. The neckslot action to me is just the on plane swing as a result of the intitial parts. .

Again, i am not purposefully trying to be obtuse. If you feel the foundation (neck slot swing) is not happening in my DD's swing, i will work on it. I just assumed the combination of the turning barrel phases as i describe them may be causing that to happen, and that the neckslot swing may be already good, but other mechanics need to be fixed.

Thank you again for the insightful feedback.

I'm going to bow out after this comment. We don't seem to really be connecting, but I appreciate the convo.

There is style and there are absolutes. The hitters I posted keep their barrel in the neck slot area and all have high level swings. The neck slot is not an absolute. Hitters with high level swings have all different styles.

Like I stated before most hitters have problems turning the barrel. Having them eliminate their personal style and just set up in the neck slot position greatly expedites the learning process of turning the barrel. I learned this the hard way by working with hundreds of kids. Kids who usually made me bang my head off the wall were having light bulb moments because we simplified things. I became a better teacher.

I've worked with many kids who had movements like your DD does and changing their handset allowed them to feel things they couldn't in the past because of all the "extras" they had going on.

There is no correct style/stance. I think the phases of barrel turn you speak of are stylistic. Not all hitters start with a vertical barrel. Some are vertical, some diagonal, some horizontal. There isn't a best way. My recommendation is simply a suggestion to help your DD learn to swivel the barrel. It is not happening with her current set up.

Dropping, looping, pulling are never words I would use to talk about turning the barrel. It is a forceful, crisp turn. Barrel perpendicular to the rear forearm, turn it keeping a tight hand pivot point.

The neck slot has great adjustability. The height of the pitch will determine the direction your knob initially turns. Turn the barrel directly to the ball. If it's high, the knob will work horizontally. If the pitch is low the knob will work up. Swivel the barrel to the ball.

Good luck!
 

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