Weight shift

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Jan 6, 2009
6,590
113
Chehalis, Wa
I think we're on the same page here. This is what I call the launch position or "position of power" (pop) as I learned it from Hudgens long ago....

FgEwnNK.gif


So yes, there is "some movement forward"...and I personally see these (and most other HL hitters) guys as still being "back", and in still having slightly more weight "rearward" than "centered", but especially not a "forward" position.

EDIT: But I can see how someone might say they're in a 50/50 position here, so not gonna pic nits over it any longer. :D

Your combining a few clips at different points. The launch position is at or near toe touch (the toe can be in the air). The power position as taught by Hudgens was many different points in the swing. The launch position is a point where the pre swing ends and the swing begins. Hudgens for example on his DVD said the power position was with the weight 60% back and at completion of the stride and "then" he shifted the weight to a centered position. So he created hip and weight shifting after the stride was down. hip slide. SO his swing was flawed what he showed happening. There is a shift of pressure happening, but not really anymore shifting forward of the mass/hips/torso/head etc., etc.,.
 
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Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Some would be incorrect then...

All show 'launch....
tumblr_peqtd8Qfpw1usf292o1_500.gif

Abort after launch....................................................launch..

On the left it doesn't appear that the barrel was "released" into impact ... I think we can all agree on that. It shouldn't be a big stretch to consider 'release' and 'launch' in similar terms ... and hence the 'barrel' was not 'launched'.
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
Your combining a few clips at different points. The launch position is at or near toe touch (the toe can be in the air). The power position as taught by Hudgens was many different points in the swing. The launch position is a point where the pre swing ends and the swing begins. Hudgens for example on his DVD said the power position was with the weight 60% back and at completion of the stride and "then" he shifted the weight to centered position. So he created hip and weight shifting after the stride was down. hip slide. SO his swing was flawed what he showed happening. There is a shift of pressure happening, but not really anymore shifting forward of the mass/hips/torso/head etc., etc.,.
Disagree, this is from Dave years ago (at least 2003 when I met with him personally)...
  • When your stride foot comes down, your weight needs to be balanced to 60% back with your hands around the back foot. This is a critical position to be in to hit for average and power.
  • The stride should start early, it should be easy and your stride foot should be down by the time the ball gets half way to three quarters of the way to home plate.
  • After the stride, as the front heel lands, the back heel should start to lift off the ground. This will start the proper sequence with the lower half of the body.
  • This is not a two part movement.
  • As the back heel comes up the rotation of the hips will start.
  • You don't want to push forward off your back foot- this will force your hips to slide forward, you want more of a rotational movement at this point.
  • Just after the backside starts turning, your hands will start their path to the ball.
....and what worked quite well for my hitters for years.

You'll notice he doesn't "want to push forward off your back foot- this will force your hips to slide forward, you want more of a rotational movement at this point"....after he had the hitter get the weight "balanced to 60% back" when "your stride foot comes down"...and "As the back heel comes up the rotation of the hips will start".
 
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Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
On the left it doesn't appear that the barrel was "released" into impact ... I think we can all agree on that. It shouldn't be a big stretch to consider 'release' and 'launch' in similar terms ... and hence the 'barrel' was not 'launched'.

This is always a tough discussion. I believe along the lines of ‘barrel load’ i e hands going forward i e ‘launching’ the swing. We are in essence launching the bat. But whatever. It’s not a super important checkpoint anyway imo.

But along those same parameters, why wouldn’t one measure a swing from ‘barrel load’ to contact to measure frames in a swing? This has always had me scratching my head. Why would it be ‘first shear’ or whatever.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,590
113
Chehalis, Wa
Disagree, this is from Dave years ago (at least 2003 when I met with him personally)...
  • When your stride foot comes down, your weight needs to be balanced to 60% back with your hands around the back foot. This is a critical position to be in to hit for average and power.
  • The stride should start early, it should be easy and your stride foot should be down by the time the ball gets half way to three quarters of the way to home plate.
  • After the stride, as the front heel lands, the back heel should start to lift off the ground. This will start the proper sequence with the lower half of the body.
  • This is not a two part movement.
  • As the back heel comes up the rotation of the hips will start.
  • You don't want to push forward off your back foot- this will force your hips to slide forward, you want more of a rotational movement at this point.
  • Just after the backside starts turning, your hands will start their path to the ball.
....and what worked quite well for my hitters for years.

You'll notice he doesn't "want to push forward off your back foot- this will force your hips to slide forward, you want more of a rotational movement at this point"....after he had the hitter get the weight "balanced to 60% back" when "your stride foot comes down"...and "As the back heel comes up the rotation of the hips will start".

Go to his power hitting DVD and watch his swing. Watch how he shifts the weight "after" stride completion, the hips and weight shifts at the start of the swing. At the launch position the swing should be "ready" to initiate. His swing is get the weight back, stride, and then shift the weight forward after the stride.

Since you have his DVD's I would love to talk to you about the short swing topic. Hudgens says in a few of his DVD's that much of what is being taught today is what is wrong with many hitters coming up.
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
Go to his power hitting DVD and watch his swing. Watch how he shifts the weight "after" stride completion, the hips and weight shifts at the start of the swing. At the launch position the swing should be "ready" to initiate. His swing is get the weight back, stride, and then shift the weight forward after the stride.
I don't believe this is anything different than I stated initially, nor from what I posted above that he wrote years ago...and the interpretation argument that seems to be the conundrum of a lot of these discussions...by that I mean the "then shift the weight forward after the stride" part.

Some interpret that as the swing "shift the weight forward after the stride", while other believe it means to "shift the weight forward after the stride", and then start the swing. When working with Dave, and in his older writing quoted it was the former as in...
  • As the back heel comes up the rotation of the hips will start. [Which is after the stride]
  • You don't want to push forward off your back foot- this will force your hips to slide forward, you want more of a rotational movement at this point. [Still after the stride, and still not intentionally shifting forward as of yet (although a little can or may happen]
  • Just after the backside starts turning, your hands will start their path to the ball. [And the start of when the "shift" off/from the backside starts to the ball]

Since you have his DVD's I would love to talk to you about the short swing topic. Hudgens says in a few of his DVD's that much of what is being taught today is what is wrong with many hitters coming up.
Unfortunately, when I got Dave's program...they were on a whole boatload of VHS tapes that I no longer have since I got rid of the VHS technology long ago. Like I mentioned above, I worked with Dave back in 2003 when he was still with the A's, and while I like a lot of his material...some of it (specifically his barrel path stuff) I later abandoned to move to somethings that I came to believe looked more like the actual MLB swing things I was seeing in the game, and not necessarily what Dave, Pujols, Mattingly, and others said and/or demoed that they were doing.

But I'd be more than happy to talk to you about whatever it is you'd like to discuss of his theories, and what I can remember from Dave saying about them...as it's been about 10-12 years since I've talked with him in all honesty.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,590
113
Chehalis, Wa
giphy.gif


Does the weight shift happens as the swing begins or is the weight shift just part of the coil (getting the hips into position), FBC, preparation to swing?

Mankin came to the conclusion that weight shift didn't happen after the swing was initiated. He says that when the swing is initiated the axis of rotation is established and there is no weight shift after this. The body comes to a complete balance and axis of rotation happens with no more weight shift.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,590
113
Chehalis, Wa
I don't believe this is anything different than I stated initially, nor from what I posted above that he wrote years ago...and the interpretation argument that seems to be the conundrum of a lot of these discussions...by that I mean the "then shift the weight forward after the stride" part.

Some interpret that as the swing "shift the weight forward after the stride", while other believe it means to "shift the weight forward after the stride", and then start the swing. When working with Dave, and in his older writing quoted it was the former as in...
  • As the back heel comes up the rotation of the hips will start. [Which is after the stride]
  • You don't want to push forward off your back foot- this will force your hips to slide forward, you want more of a rotational movement at this point. [Still after the stride, and still not intentionally shifting forward as of yet (although a little can or may happen]
  • Just after the backside starts turning, your hands will start their path to the ball. [And the start of when the "shift" off/from the backside starts to the ball]

Unfortunately, when I got Dave's program...they were on a whole boatload of VHS tapes that I no longer have since I got rid of the VHS technology long ago. Like I mentioned above, I worked with Dave back in 2003 when he was still with the A's, and while I like a lot of his material...some of it (specifically his barrel path stuff) I later abandoned to move to somethings that I came to believe looked more like the actual MLB swing things I was seeing in the game, and not necessarily what Dave, Pujols, Mattingly, and others said and/or demoed that they were doing.

But I'd be more than happy to talk to you about whatever it is you'd like to discuss of his theories, and what I can remember from Dave saying about them...as it's been about 10-12 years since I've talked with him in all honesty.


Yeah I bought the VHS tapes also and then for a fraction of the price bought the DVD's years ago.

The barrel path stuff, the knob reaching the front hip with the barrel still up and above the hands/shoulder. Yeah some of his stuff was messed up.
 
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Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
giphy.gif


Does the weight shift happens as the swing begins or is the weight shift just part of the coil (getting the hips into position), FBC, preparation to swing?

Mankin came to the conclusion that weight shift didn't happen after the swing was initiated. He says that when the swing is initiated the axis of rotation is established and there is no weight shift after this. The body comes to a complete balance and axis of rotation happens with no more weight shift.

For me personally I believe the weight or COM shifts back, shifts to the middle in space and shifts after toe touch into the front leg into contact. I know I’m in the minority. Yes it’s a shift THEN swing. But thats what I see in pro swings.

I see it as the core counter rotates(shifts back). Then the COM gets twisted back to square to the plate and drops (shifts to the middle at toe touch or 50/50) and then rotates forward(shifts into a firm front side). That’s how I see it. Here’s Miggy and Kemp.

https://twitter.com/hyattcraig/status/1074122240034127872?s=21
https://twitter.com/hyattcraig/status/1076243017764237312?s=21
 
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