Just some discussion: What are your top 3 absolutes that you try to teach all hitters

Rolling Hard said:

Belly button gaining ground is a must.

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I was just wondering why you think the belly button advancing is important in a swing sequence.For the record I believe so as well. Just wanted to know what’s the advantage of this is in your opinion?

Also when do you think it should advance? Thanks.

Simple timing drill: Have a pitcher stand behind a screen and go through their motion. Have hitter hit balls off a tee while timing the pitcher. When the pitcher moves I say “sink” to make sure we are getting movement with the pitcher. Important to have hitters stride as slow as possible. As soon as pitchers hand/ball reaches her hip the hitter should begin her slow stride. Simple drill that will allow hitters to focus solely on timing the pitcher.

Work=wins said:

I was just wondering why you think the belly button advancing is important in a swing sequence.For the record I believe so as well. Just wanted to know what’s the advantage of this is in your opinion?

Also when do you think it should advance? Thanks.

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FFS posted some nice gifs with lines showing the back hip gaining ground. Same thing. I just use a different part of the body. Maybe back hip is better cue? Why? If it doesnt the hitter is prone to spin ands squish.

Rolling Hard said:

FFS posted some nice gifs with lines showing the back hip gaining ground. Same thing. I just use a different part of the body. Maybe back hip is better cue? Why? If it doesnt the hitter is prone to spin ands squish.

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So how does one gain ground? Weight shift isn't as simple as gaining ground.

Rolling Hard said:

I don't think so! LOL I was standing up in my office and tried it and said to myself "hey, that just might work." A good way to communicate hitting to a good infielder that struggles or is mechanical at the plate.

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Many kids get the sequence correct when they throw. It's second nature to them. Put a bat in their hands and the sequence is no where to be seen. The notion is to steal/borrow a hitter's movement pattern from throwing and bring it into their swing.

Rolling Hard said:

Another question for you FFS. Do you like the timing drill where the coach throws the tennis ball to the hitter in their batting stance and they turn and catch it in the would be contact position? I like mechanics but I see more girls struggling with timing.

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Why not use a regulation softball?

Are you bouncing it off the floor? If so ... not a fan of that drill.

Rolling Hard said:

I like mechanics but I see more girls struggling with timing. How do you teach or drill timing aspect of hitting? I like the two plates drill too.

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A hitter that is religious with their mechanics will generally not have an issue with timing.

A hitter that is willing to cheat on their mechanics will tend to have an issue with timing.

Often a hitter doesn't adequately prepare their torso-engine ... they are timing the ball with their 'hands' instead of their torso. Their torso isn't ready, so they are forced to short-circuit their swing and use their arms/shoulders. They were not religious to their mechanics. Had they been religious to their mechanics then they would have been preparing the torso as the ball was released by the pitcher.

A drill I use is the popular drill that Stone calls "step and hit". The drill starts with the feet together. I call the drill "timing and sequence". I want "timing" and "sequence" captured in the drill. I pitch the ball, and as the ball is released I want the hitter to begin gaining ground with their rear hip. If they get this right, then they have the "timing" correct. I also want them to "walk away from their hands", and if they get this correct then they have the "sequence" correct. Timing and Sequence.

After running through the drill starting with the "feet together", I have a hitter perform "timing and sequence" in their normal swing.

The issue many young hitters have is that they don't understand that they need to be 'on time' twice on every pitch. They need to be 'on time' to move forward, and they need to be 'on time' to square the ball. If they fail to be 'on time' with their 'move out', then they will feel rushed and they will short-circuit their swing ... they will not be religious to their mechanics.

Understand what Hosmer is talking about in terms of timing his 'separation' ... he is talking about timing his "sequence" ... his "walk away from his hands".



Add the concept of "early and slow", and you have a hitter than can time almost anything.

Shawn said:

So how does one gain ground? Weight shift isn't as simple as gaining ground.

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My main focus on "gaining ground" is to prepare my torso to 'twitch' while being in 'sequence'.

I am "reading the pitch" and "preparing to launch my swing".

I do not perform a 'move out' for the purpose of momentum ... something young LL kids need to get beyond.

I don't believe you need to focus on a "weight shift" ... or on "Shift AND Swing" vs "Shift THEN Swing". If you focus on using the torso-engine then the shift will be a result. You are in a sense "Pivoting the Swing".

FiveFrameSwing said:

Interesting. A connection between the 'hands' and the 'rear shoulder' through tension in the 'scap'. I appreciate that description. I would have been more impressed if you spoke of a connection between the 'hands' and the 'lower body' via the creation of tension in the rear 'scap'.

Many folks speak of a connection of the 'hands' to the rotating 'torso' via the lead-arm. You speak of the rear-arm.

Here's my 'feel'.

During the 'torso-twitch' ... i.e., the start of the main-engine ... many call 'hips' (but that is incomplete IMO) ... both shoulders undergo a sort of 'fusion'. The rear shoulder, which was relatively loose, goes into a semi-retracted state. That is important ... otherwise you'll develop 'pushers' ... and we want 'pullers'. The rear-arm basically remains 'short' ... as in a 'Vee' orientation ... it 'loops' ... many refer to that as a forearm-engine ... some refer to as a 'hand-engine' ... but it is really just an arm-action that is equivalent to the start of a side-arm throw. In this way the lower core causes the rear shoulder to go into a semi-retracted state, and is 'connected' to the 'top-hand' ... via two-engines ... a torso-engine connects the lower-core to the rear shoulder/scap, and the side-arm throw mechanic (remaining short) gives an 'attachment' of the top-hand to the shoulder. Two independent engines give a sort of 'attachment' ... 'connection' if you will ... of the top-hand to the lower body.

Take note that as the torso twitches that the lead shoulder jumps up ... an action that is being resisted ... and this leads to an 'attachment' ... 'connection' if you will ... of the bottom-hand to the lower core. It is this action that many, including Buster, credit a connection of the 'hands' to the 'lower body'.

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Was waiting for someone to ask...but maybe everyone knows and I missed something. What is a Torso Twitch?

bobbyb said:

Was waiting for someone to ask...but maybe everyone knows and I missed something. What is a Torso Twitch?

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Twitch ....

FiveFrameSwing said:

Many kids get the sequence correct when they throw. It's second nature to them. Put a bat in their hands and the sequence is no where to be seen. The notion is to steal/borrow a hitter's movement pattern from throwing and bring it into their swing.




Why not use a regulation softball?

Are you bouncing it off the floor? If so ... not a fan of that drill.




A hitter that is religious with their mechanics will generally not have an issue with timing.

A hitter that is willing to cheat on their mechanics will tend to have an issue with timing.

Often a hitter doesn't adequately prepare their torso-engine ... they are timing the ball with their 'hands' instead of their torso. Their torso isn't ready, so they are forced to short-circuit their swing and use their arms/shoulders. They were not religious to their mechanics. Had they been religious to their mechanics then they would have been preparing the torso as the ball was released by the pitcher.

A drill I use is the popular drill that Stone calls "step and hit". The drill starts with the feet together. I call the drill "timing and sequence". I want "timing" and "sequence" captured in the drill. I pitch the ball, and as the ball is released I want the hitter to begin gaining ground with their rear hip. If they get this right, then they have the "timing" correct. I also want them to "walk away from their hands", and if they get this correct then they have the "sequence" correct. Timing and Sequence.

After running through the drill starting with the "feet together", I have a hitter perform "timing and sequence" in their normal swing.

The issue many young hitters have is that they don't understand that they need to be 'on time' twice on every pitch. They need to be 'on time' to move forward, and they need to be 'on time' to square the ball. If they fail to be 'on time' with their 'move out', then they will feel rushed and they will short-circuit their swing ... they will not be religious to their mechanics.

Understand what Hosmer is talking about in terms of timing his 'separation' ... he is talking about timing his "sequence" ... his "walk away from his hands".



Add the concept of "early and slow", and you have a hitter than can time almost anything.

Click to expand...

This is good stuff here. Worked with a coach last year that would always tell hitters when we were drilling on speed that they were swinging over or under pitches when all they really were was late. Consistently. With not much understanding of how to fix it and get on time. Very frustrating within a team context to instruct 'against' other coaches.

I often tell players: how many times when playing catch do you miss a ball high or low? Our hand/eye is pretty good (I realize catching and hitting isn't the same, but hand/eye is hand/eye). As FFS says, once you learn to 1. time the pitcher and 2. time the ball hitters will make more consistent contact regardless of speed and with maturity and practice regardless of movement too.

When teaching developing and rising hitters (ie, facing increasingly good pitching) I think learning to be on-time is one part mentality (ie, you can't wait to see the pitch to start your swing) and one part mechanics (you can't waste motion, start/restart, not use stretch properly, get long in your movements - not understand hand pivot, hip pivot) and be successful.

FiveFrameSwing said:

Many kids get the sequence correct when they throw. It's second nature to them. Put a bat in their hands and the sequence is no where to be seen. The notion is to steal/borrow a hitter's movement pattern from throwing and bring it into their swing.


A hitter that is religious with their mechanics will generally not have an issue with timing.

A hitter that is willing to cheat on their mechanics will tend to have an issue with timing.

Often a hitter doesn't adequately prepare their torso-engine ... they are timing the ball with their 'hands' instead of their torso. Their torso isn't ready, so they are forced to short-circuit their swing and use their arms/shoulders. They were not religious to their mechanics. Had they been religious to their mechanics then they would have been preparing the torso as the ball was released by the pitcher.

A drill I use is the popular drill that Stone calls "step and hit". The drill starts with the feet together. I call the drill "timing and sequence". I want "timing" and "sequence" captured in the drill. I pitch the ball, and as the ball is released I want the hitter to begin gaining ground with their rear hip. If they get this right, then they have the "timing" correct. I also want them to "walk away from their hands", and if they get this correct then they have the "sequence" correct. Timing and Sequence.

After running through the drill starting with the "feet together", I have a hitter perform "timing and sequence" in their normal swing.

The issue many young hitters have is that they don't understand that they need to be 'on time' twice on every pitch. They need to be 'on time' to move forward, and they need to be 'on time' to square the ball. If they fail to be 'on time' with their 'move out', then they will feel rushed and they will short-circuit their swing ... they will not be religious to their mechanics.

Understand what Hosmer is talking about in terms of timing his 'separation' ... he is talking about timing his "sequence" ... his "walk away from his hands".



Add the concept of "early and slow", and you have a hitter than can time almost anything.

Click to expand...

So much good stuff here ^^^!

I found the bolded part to be especially significant with young hitters. Adding to this topic...I found that starting too late often comes from a flawed mental approach of wanting to evaluate pitch location before preparing to hit. With slow pitching, they can get away with it. As pitching gets faster, they are quickly out of time to still execute a good swing. Preparing to hit must happen first, on every pitch.