Staying back

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Aug 20, 2017
1,474
113
I believe hand path is controlled by holding the upper body load (scap load) during the stride into foot plant. During the stride the hands should stretch the knob of the bat towards the catcher and rear elbow lift slightly. Constantly pulling the hands back during the stride and even as the lower body begins rotation will create good hand path. Focus on getting in your legs and riding that feeling into footplant while consistently stretching hands. JMO
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
I believe hand path is controlled by holding the upper body load (scap load) during the stride into foot plant. During the stride the hands should stretch the knob of the bat towards the catcher and rear elbow lift slightly. Constantly pulling the hands back during the stride and even as the lower body begins rotation will create good hand path. Focus on getting in your legs and riding that feeling into footplant while consistently stretching hands. JMO

The way I teach it, the upper body loading is in the core during the ‘move out’ … not in the rear scap. The scap becomes semi-retracted by being fairly loose while the trunk is rotated relatively quickly. It is this relative suddenness of the torso, while being loose, that leads to the semi-retraction of the rear shoulder and the feeling of the hands going back even as the lower body begins rotation. For the fortunate ones … the hands were really never brought forward but instead looped rearward.
 
Last edited:
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
I believe hand path is controlled by holding the upper body load (scap load) during the stride into foot plant. During the stride the hands should stretch the knob of the bat towards the catcher and rear elbow lift slightly. Constantly pulling the hands back during the stride and even as the lower body begins rotation will create good hand path. Focus on getting in your legs and riding that feeling into footplant while consistently stretching hands. JMO

I dont think its this simple. My experience with DD is if we focus primarily on driving hands back during stride out, it yeilds an “arm-bar” type swing. We have since dialed that cue back, and now try to maintain hands/rear shoulder proximity (lateral and vertical positioning) during stride out. This has yeilded a better swing and hand path.
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
I personally believe some folks put too much focus in the wrong spot, in that I've not known a single hitter that would say they want to hit the ball with their "hands" or the "knob", yet so many want to work, and talk about the hands over the end of the bat that's really the key to hitting a softball or baseball IMO.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the hands don't play a very important role in the swing, on the contrary, I believe they are what separate the best from the rest. All I'm saying is that they should be viewed as a part of entire body system that is used to get the correct "barrel path" that we should be focusing on, and more/most concerned with.

IME, it is easier (and a better teach) to show a hitter the correct "barrel path" that you're looking for, and let them learn/find the best entire body kinetics for themselves to get that done with...rather than try to teach a particular "hand path", and hope that that particular path assimilates into the hitter's own proprioception of the swing. But then again I'm more into teaching to the particular hitter's strengths, and weaknesses vs. the "cookie cutter", one-size-fits-all approach to instruction as I've seen on many occasion.

JMO...YMMV.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
I focus on hand path because I believe doing so is the reason the baseball/softball swing is a 'swing'. Keeping the hands up is a big help in making the baseball/softball swing a 'swing'. Many pros feel the same way. It was one of Bonds' top swing cues.

 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
I personally believe some folks put too much focus in the wrong spot, in that I've not known a single hitter that would say they want to hit the ball with their "hands" or the "knob", yet so many want to work, and talk about the hands over the end of the bat that's really the key to hitting a softball or baseball IMO.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the hands don't play a very important role in the swing, on the contrary, I believe they are what separate the best from the rest. All I'm saying is that they should be viewed as a part of entire body system that is used to get the correct "barrel path" that we should be focusing on, and more/most concerned with.

IME, it is easier (and a better teach) to show a hitter the correct "barrel path" that you're looking for, and let them learn/find the best entire body kinetics for themselves to get that done with...rather than try to teach a particular "hand path", and hope that that particular path assimilates into the hitter's own proprioception of the swing. But then again I'm more into teaching to the particular hitter's strengths, and weaknesses vs. the "cookie cutter", one-size-fits-all approach to instruction as I've seen on many occasion.

JMO...YMMV.

Good post... I have found a lot of value in using the barrel centric approach that you talk about. And some of the advice that you have offered in the past has helped my DD. That said, I also find value in the hand centric approach. In my opinion, they both go together. Yes, it is possible to overdo the 'hands' part, and the hitter may not acquire the depth to their swing that we both are looking for. But I have also witnessed some hitters that seem to struggle with the 'hands' part and therefore have trouble getting the barrel part correct as well. When I work with a hitter, I try my best to hone my instruction with what works for them. So ultimately, my reason for using both approaches is to avoid your bold statement above.
 
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
Hand are important. Barrel is important. But I will take it even one step farther. Ball trajectory and speed is the goal. If I am throw front toss inside, outside, down the middle, and varying speeds and the hitter is
going with the pitch and consistently squaring it up and hitting lasers all over the field then she probably has the hands and barrel right. This is what I do with my DD. The goal is to hit line drives to the grass in the air. (about 100 ft.) She is 11 and only 76 lbs. If I throw inside and she rolls over one, she knows exactly what happened, so we will do it again. She will for the most part corrects herself. And if she hit a weak fly ball to the right side, again she knows exactly what she did. She has a pretty good understanding of her swing. Understanding your swing, setting a goal and getting instant feedback has proven beneficial to her development.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
I consider it to be a decent goal to keep the top-hand up during the initial torso-engine twitch. I have other goals ... but keeping the top-hand up is one of the important one's for me.

Williams-Ted-Head.gif
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
Let me expound on my thoughts of teaching "barrel path" vs "hand path". While I'll continue to emphasize that hand "action" is an extremely important part of the HL swing...I don't believe that that "action" is found in a specific "path" of the hands to the ball. I'll try to explain....

This video is being posted incessantly at another site I'll read at on occasion...

...as some sort of mystical application of how teaching "hand path" (knob or hands to the ball) is the only way to achieve the HL swing being shown there.

Now I'm not saying that it can't be done, but what I'd like to ask anyone who teaches "hand path" over "barrel path"....is how and/or when do you teach or explain to a hitter to start taking their hands away from the ball, and shift their focus to "barrel to the ball"?

IOWs, I can see how "hands/knob, or direction to the ball" might work in the beginning of the swing, but just at or even slightly before "bat lag", the hitter is going to start changing direction of the hands and begin taking them "away from the ball" in order to get them out of the way so the barrel can work through to it (at the pause below)....
37k7EP1.gif


So what is the cue or instruction used to teach the hitter the proper moment to transition from "knob/hands to the ball" to "barrel to the ball" in the swing? I have some ideas wrt the "release", "launch", and a couple others, but I'd first rather hear the cues/instruction from those here using it before going any further with my continued thoughts.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Let me expound on my thoughts of teaching "barrel path" vs "hand path". While I'll continue to emphasize that hand "action" is an extremely important part of the HL swing...I don't believe that that "action" is found in a specific "path" of the hands to the ball. I'll try to explain....

This video is being posted incessantly at another site I'll read at on occasion...

...as some sort of mystical application of how teaching "hand path" (knob or hands to the ball) is the only way to achieve the HL swing being shown there.

Now I'm not saying that it can't be done, but what I'd like to ask anyone who teaches "hand path" over "barrel path"....is how and/or when do you teach or explain to a hitter to start taking their hands away from the ball, and shift their focus to "barrel to the ball"?

IOWs, I can see how "hands/knob, or direction to the ball" might work in the beginning of the swing, but just at or even slightly before "bat lag", the hitter is going to start changing direction of the hands and begin taking them "away from the ball" in order to get them out of the way so the barrel can work through to it (at the pause below)....
37k7EP1.gif


So what is the cue or instruction used to teach the hitter the proper moment to transition from "knob/hands to the ball" to "barrel to the ball" in the swing? I have some ideas wrt the "release", "launch", and a couple others, but I'd first rather hear the cues/instruction from those here using it before going any further with my continued thoughts.


I don't believe anyone that places an emphasis on hand-path is ignoring the barrel.

One doesn't shift a focus suddenly to barreling up ... that was the goal when they stepped into the batter's box ... it's just that the hand-path can assist with that goal.

When working on swing development ... and when working on building short-term memory during the heat of battle (dry swing mechanics between pitches) ... it helps to focus on a particular goal. The notion is to build a particular aspect of the swing into short-term memory and then trust that is in your swing ... as you attempt to barrel up the next pitch.

Having multiple goals at different points of the same swing won't work well ... the swing is just too quick for that. So during swing development you break down what you are working on. For an accomplished hitter that may change from swing-to-swing. For someone in the batter's box that may change from swing-to-swing as well. I tell the hitters on my teams that if they are not using their time between pitches to address what they need to focus on, then they are not working hard enough.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,477
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top