Staying back

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
'2 legged' hitting is a hitter that shifts(weight) from rear leg to the the front leg(weight). A shift then swing hitter.
'1 legged' hitter shifts AND swings. The swing shifts the weight to the middle or front.

What you describe as '2 legged' is what I describe as poor main-engine/torso-engine usage.

I don't look at the swing as 'Shift THEN Swing' versus 'Shift AND Swing'. Hitter's simply need to learn proper torso-engine usage. If a hitter is jumping on their front leg then they will tend to have a long swing ... not the goal ... we are after a short and more compact swing.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
https://youtu.be/hYcqabO6e7s

This is a pretty good overall explanation of how to ‘ commit to the middle’ without lunging.imo.


Timing your ‘stay back’ isn’t something that happens just because you do it right if that makes sense. It’s really about what the eyes/brain tell the hitter when to commit the backside as well. It’s a ‘varied’ mechanic if you will. It’s why pitchers change speeds. It’s why hitting is hard. It’s why the gather/load of a swing should be ‘felt’ and known in the beginning of the sequence until that feeling is mastered. It sets up a MORE CONTROLLED forward move.

I really like the ‘walk away from the hands/backside’ cue paired with ‘not giving up the back leg and hip relationship’ until commitment/launch.

I am not a big fan of teaching 'reaching with the front leg'. To me the 'move out' is primarily about preparing the torso to pull.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
I am not a big fan of teaching 'reaching with the front leg'. To me the 'move out' is primarily about preparing the torso to pull.

Yeah. I don’t like reach either. I do like the weight on the inside of the back leg feeling Mattingly describes.

‘Reaching’ can still keep the weight back to far. But I do like the presentation as a whole to get an overall view of ‘WHEN’ your shift should occur.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Yeah. I don’t like reach either. I do like the weight on the inside of the back leg feeling Mattingly describes.

‘Reaching’ can still keep the weight back to far. But I do like the presentation as a whole to get an overall view of ‘WHEN’ your shift should occur.

Stride, or no-stride, I want the torso preparing to pull.

At swing launch notice how many hitters have their rear shoulder higher than their lead shoulder ... the distance between their rear-shoulder to rear hip is longer than the distance between their front-shoulder to front-hip.

Also notice that at swing launch that many hitters tend to have the distance from their front-shoulder to rear-hip (across the body) longer on the front of their body than along the back of their body (... e.g., moving out with the lead shoulder coming down and in).

The notion is to get the torso in an advantageous position to pull.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
Stride, or no-stride, I want the torso preparing to pull.

At swing launch notice how many hitters have their rear shoulder higher than their lead shoulder ... the distance between their rear-shoulder to rear hip is longer than the distance between their front-shoulder to front-hip.

Also notice that at swing launch that many hitters tend to have the distance from their front-shoulder to rear-hip (across the body) longer on the front of their body than along the back of their body (... e.g., moving out with the lead shoulder coming down and in).

The notion is to get the torso in an advantageous position to pull.

Do you believe this ‘pulling of torso’ mechanic is efficiently achieved by a proper gather/load. I do.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Do you believe this ‘pulling of torso’ mechanic is efficiently achieved by a proper gather/load. I do.

I don't view the mechanic so much as the torso being pulled .... more as the torso pulling.

In answering your question below ... it is my understanding that you are discussing the 'move out' ... prior to 'swing launch'.

I would need you to define what you mean by 'load'. If you are speaking of 'loading' in terms of weighting the rear leg ... then I am fine with that. If you are speaking of 'loading' in terms of taking the slack out of the torso ... then I am fine with that. If you are speaking of 'loading' as a tightening of muscles in the rear-shoulder, rear-scap, wrists, etc ... then we have different images of the swing at this point in time.

To me the feeling of 'gather' is a feel associated with the rear leg serving as a post-like support as the torso prepares for it's part in launching the swing.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
I don't view the mechanic so much as the torso being pulled .... more as the torso pulling.

In answering your question below ... it is my understanding that you are discussing the 'move out' ... prior to 'swing launch'.

I would need you to define what you mean by 'load'. If you are speaking of 'loading' in terms of weighting the rear leg ... then I am fine with that. If you are speaking of 'loading' in terms of taking the slack out of the torso ... then I am fine with that. If you are speaking of 'loading' as a tightening of muscles in the rear-shoulder, rear-scap, wrists, etc ... then we have different images of the swing at this point in time.

To me the feeling of 'gather' is a feel associated with the rear leg serving as a post-like support as the torso prepares for it's part in launching the swing.

The 2 formers and not the latter would be my description.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
On occasion I will have a hitter that counter rotates their shoulders excessively during their 'move out'. In a sense this is akin to a golfer swinging their arms backwards without using their core. They are primarily loading their upper torso ... shoulders. View the video below and see if what I am attempting describe makes sense. Then understand the difference between the 'golf' swing and the 'baseball/softball' swing in terms of loading up the muscles in the core and trunk ... whereas the usage in the golf swing rotates the body backwards approximately 45-degrees, the rotation backwards for the baseball/softball swing is considerably less, and contains a 'rotation up' leading to an increased distance between the 'rear shoulder to rear hip' and a decreased distance between the 'front shoulder and front hip' (attack angle ... shoulders slanted downward towards the pitcher) ... as well as leading to the lead shoulder 'down and in'. This 'core/trunk' loading will lengthen the muscles between the 'rear shoulder and rear hip' as well as the muscles along the back (not front, but back) between the 'front shoulder and rear hip'. You want both muscle sets semi-lengthened in preparation for launching the swing.

 
Last edited:
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
"contains a 'rotation up' leading to an increased distance between the 'rear shoulder to rear hip' and a decreased distance between the 'front shoulder and front hip' (attack angle ... shoulders slanted downward towards the pitcher) ... as well as leading to the lead shoulder 'down and in'. This 'core/trunk' loading will lengthen the muscles between the 'rear shoulder and rear hip' as well as the muscles along the back (not front, but back) between the 'front shoulder and rear hip'. You want both muscle sets semi-lengthened in preparation for launching the swing."

Can this move be over done? And would the result be a too high launch angle?

My DD launch angle has become to high (good for sac flies) but I think the cause maybe over doing this ^^^^ move. My way of fixing it will be too have her hit long tee and front toss into a large backstop about 70 ft away with the goal of launching the ball into backstop's second rung (aprox. 8-16 ft. high). She gets the feedback from seeing the ball's trajectory and let her mind and body figure it out with very little input from the peanut gallery.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
"contains a 'rotation up' leading to an increased distance between the 'rear shoulder to rear hip' and a decreased distance between the 'front shoulder and front hip' (attack angle ... shoulders slanted downward towards the pitcher) ... as well as leading to the lead shoulder 'down and in'. This 'core/trunk' loading will lengthen the muscles between the 'rear shoulder and rear hip' as well as the muscles along the back (not front, but back) between the 'front shoulder and rear hip'. You want both muscle sets semi-lengthened in preparation for launching the swing."

Can this move be over done? And would the result be a too high launch angle?

My DD launch angle has become to high (good for sac flies) but I think the cause maybe over doing this ^^^^ move. My way of fixing it will be too have her hit long tee and front toss into a large backstop about 70 ft away with the goal of launching the ball into backstop's second rung (aprox. 8-16 ft. high). She gets the feedback from seeing the ball's trajectory and let her mind and body figure it out with very little input from the peanut gallery.

Yes, this can be 'overdone' ... although generally I see it 'underdone'.

The notion is to use the core for loading ... it should still be relatively 'loose' ... hence the reason it is generally described as "slack removal" ... which for some hitters avoids a translation of excessive stretch. Make sure the torso is still relatively loose ... being too tight/stretched is generally where folks overshoot in terms of being excessive.

What I do is put an 8-ft net in the 2B and SS positions and work on hitting line-drives that just clear that net.

p.s.
The result of this 'setup' is that it causes the torso-engine to be more efficient ... which in turn improves the initial swing arc. This can lead to greater launch angle and will result in obtaining more 'air' ... however, I generally do not back off the torso-engine being more efficient, but instead improve the hand-path to accommodate an improved torso-engine. Having a goal of passing through an 'upright Vee' (rear arm orientation) will provide the support for an efficient torso-engine ... whereas passing through a 'lazy L' will not support an efficient torso-engine.

p.p.s
A common issue I see when first introducing this is that hitters attempt to use their upper torso and shoulders ... a top down approach ... where instead it should be initiated with a core/middle type action. Using the upper torso and shoulders would be excessive.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,468
Members
21,443
Latest member
sstop28
Top