LAG Hinge angle Push Throw

Mann, I wrote the following to you over 4yrs ago on this message board ... "IMO, you need to understand exactly what is being described as a 'push' ... and where in the swing you are speaking of."

You don't seem to learn. You have your own ideas that appear scrambled. Now you are talking about a 'push' relative to the 'bottom-hand', relative to the 'top-hand', relative to 'throwing a ball', relative to 'boxing', relative to 'frontal plane swing hacks', etc. etc. etc. You haven't yet identified 'where' in the swing this 'push' is ... you just keep throwing more things out there.

julray said:

Can you please elaborate on this more.... specifically early trunk location?

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Boxing may be a good analogy for understanding this.

Instead of hitting into a punching bag, put down the bat and throw punches. The objective is to throw quick punches. To throw a quick punch you need to be loose ... i.e., low tension level. I am making a few assumptions here relative to how you will go about this ... but go through the process of throwing punches into a punching bag. After throwing a few quick jabs key in on the compression of your rear scap against your backside as your trunk initiates rotation. Try freezing your body in place shortly after the trunk begins rotating to support your punch and take note of the rear scap. It likely 'became' compressed against your backside.

Jcuevas said:

Marco Medina

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

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"squish the bug"? lol I get it. you pushing across your body. i think we all agree that this is not a good thing. Im completely on board.

Rolling Hard said:

got scap load?

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YES! In this clip i realized what some were talking about when they said "the scap gets loaded" Im thinking that if you let it "get loaded" it maintains the whip effect, as apposed to a pre clamp option.

mann said:

"squish the bug"? lol I get it. you pushing across your body. i think we all agree that this is not a good thing. Im completely on board.

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Not 'bug squish'.

mann said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi8mWVVDYjo

What a push swing looks like.

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I was reading through the posts here and watched the video you linked. Here is what I see the problem being demonstrated is and why I hate some of these videos. Nothing against you. He demonstrated a "Push swing" and said all these bad things about it. How you don't get the lower half involved and that its just arms. No bat speed etc. Yeah, he is right if that was how you swing, but look how he is demonstrating the "Push swing" he is not even trying to use lower half. Right? He's standing straight and just push his hands across his body. no shoulder turn etc. Then turns around and starts saying how its wrong on so many levels to quote "Push Swing". The next demonstration he actually does use his lower half etc. Then it turn says its the correct way and here is what I'm trying to say. If you took the push swing and actually used his lower half with spine tilt and proper sequence etc. that he used on the second swing would it look much different? Look at the video again, don't take my word for it. I'm not saying a push swing is correct or not. I'm simply stating that many who do these videos do not properly demonstrate a certain portion of the swing. Because they are just trying to prove a certain agenda. I'm new and not a expert, just my two cents!

clemenslee1 said:

I was reading through the posts here and watched the video you linked. Here is what I see the problem being demonstrated is and why I hate some of these videos. Nothing against you. He demonstrated a "Push swing" and said all these bad things about it. How you don't get the lower half involved and that its just arms. No bat speed etc. Yeah, he is right if that was how you swing, but look how he is demonstrating the "Push swing" he is not even trying to use lower half. Right? He's standing straight and just push his hands across his body. no shoulder turn etc. Then turns around and starts saying how its wrong on so many levels to quote "Push Swing". The next demonstration he actually does use his lower half etc. Then it turn says its the correct way and here is what I'm trying to say. If you took the push swing and actually used his lower half with spine tilt and proper sequence etc. that he used on the second swing would it look much different? Look at the video again, don't take my word for it. I'm not saying a push swing is correct or not. I'm simply stating that many who do these videos do not properly demonstrate a certain portion of the swing. Because they are just trying to prove a certain agenda. I'm new and not a expert, just my two cents!

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Mann is likely laughing. He admitted posted that video of a ‘push swing’ knowing that it had nothing to do with the ‘push’ that he was asking about ("many HL peoples have said the swing is a push"). Mann is just horsing around ... probably pretending to be unwise to stimulate conversation.

FiveFrameSwing said:

Mann is likely laughing. He admitted posted that video of a ‘push swing’ knowing that it had nothing to do with the ‘push’ that he was asking about ("many HL peoples have said the swing is a push"). Mann is just horsing around ... probably pretending to be unwise to stimulate conversation.

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Probably so, but nevertheless my issue with many of these youtube or otherwise teaching videos still stands. It aggravates me to no end LOL. To me it leads people into wrong conclusions about what is or is not true.

clemenslee1 said:

Probably so, but nevertheless my issue with many of these youtube or otherwise teaching videos still stands. It aggravates me to no end LOL. To me it leads people into wrong conclusions about what is or is not true.

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If it's on the internet, it must be true, right?

[sarcasm...]

Mann, in the event you are being serious … the swing is initiated by the torso 'pulling' on both the rear and lead upper arms/shoulders. During the initial torso pulling action the forearms seek plane (hand-engine if you wish) … during the initial pulling action. At this point the lead arm can be thought to be a ‘swinger’, while the top-hand/rear-arm can be thought to be a ‘thrower’. It is at this point that folks like Ben Hogan spoke of wishing to have three right hands (i.e., 3 top-hands) … that was in reference to having a strong desire to ‘throw’. During the initial pull the torso-engine is rotating (up and out) and the hand/forearm engine is rotating as well … these are two independent engines, yet they are synchronized engines … and they have the barrel ‘turning/orbiting/arcing’ … the job is to break out of this rotation with ‘direction’ … and that is basically accomplished by “getting behind the ball”/”going top-hand palm-up”/”supinating the rear forearm” … and it is this action that breaks away from the body’s rotation. That break away can be thought of as a ‘throw’ … or for some, that break away can be described as a ‘push’ … but see more below on that train of thought … because a ‘push’ here can still be problematic.

You have frequently written of ‘pushing’. The reason I’ve asked you over the years to specify ‘where’ in the swing this ‘push’ is located, is because it makes a difference. Your earlier video showing the swing launched with a ‘push’ is way off base … the swing is launched with a ‘pulling’ action. The ‘push’, if you persist in thinking in terms of a ‘push’, would be more a ‘throw’. And let me be clear … IMO you do not want an out-front-push … which generally occurs because a hitter did not generate enough bat speed with the initial pulling action. When I tell my hitters that they ‘pushed’ in their last swing, I expect a correction on their next swing … I expect them to generate more barrel speed during the initial pulling phase so that their ‘push’ into impact is replaced with more of a ‘release’. The difference is observable visually and audibly.

I don’t use the term ‘push’ during hitting instruction in a positive manner … only in a negative manner … with the expectation that a modification is made to remove the ‘push’. I do use terms like ‘pull’, ‘throw’, ‘get behind the ball’ and ‘release’.