When does the batter start moving.

FiveFrameSwing said:

In terms of the 'Move out' ... one should always anticipate that they will use their torso-engine. It should be a given. Failure to 'prepare to use the torso' increases the probability of errant swings.

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I'm talking anticipating a certain pitch location/speed. Not how the body moves or when it starts. When I played fastpitch vs guys that were throwing 76-78 pretty sure I wasn't thinking torso-engine. Failure to prepare? Possibly.

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Work=wins said:

I believe this can be understood when ‘gather’ is done on time, as well as walking away(momentum)from the hands/backside is done without ‘falling’ forward. Dynamic balance if you will. mo.

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So in simple terms, sequence?

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FiveFrameSwing said:

In terms of the 'Move out' ... one should always anticipate that they will use their torso-engine. It should be a given. Failure to 'prepare to use the torso' increases the probability of errant swings.

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To be clear, I totally understand where you're coming from. Like I said though "The hay is in the barn". Sometimes folks think it's all mechanical but in reality a little mental game might be affecting the kid. Just my thoughts.

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Jcuevas said:

So in simple terms, sequence?

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Short answer yes. But done on time as wel as in balance.

Work=wins said:

Short answer yes. But done on time as wel as in balance.

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We all know or should know that getting into a good position on time is the hardest part of hitting. That's why I'm a big fan of this topic. Everyone is different and we gotta understand how the brain works. When is my brain telling me to go after getting into that position? I've been around kids that have beautiful swings mechanically but had the hardest time with their timing. The hay was in the barn but when it was time to perform they choked. Why? Numbers looked good (EV,LA) off a tee, front toss, and live cage pitching. Brain? Trust in their "hay"? Great topic.

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Jcuevas said:

We all know or should know that getting into a good position on time is the hardest part of hitting. That's why I'm a big fan of this topic. Everyone is different and we gotta understand how the brain works. When is my brain telling me to go after getting into that position? I've been around kids that have beautiful swings mechanically but had the hardest time with their timing. The hay was in the barn but when it was time to perform they choked. Why? Numbers looked good (EV,LA) off a tee, front toss, and live cage pitching. Brain? Trust in their "hay"? Great topic.

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To me it isn't necessarily about being in a 'position' ... otherwise folks would simply start in 'that position' .... instead it is about gaining a 'feel' of being ready to use the torso and hands. I gain that 'feel' during my 'move out' and 'reading of the pitch'.

FiveFrameSwing said:

To me it isn't necessarily about being in a 'position' ... otherwise folks would simply start in 'that position' .... instead it is about gaining a 'feel' of being ready to use the torso and hands. I gain that 'feel' during my 'move out' and 'reading of the pitch'.

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So instead of "getting into a position" use 'feel'? There's no difference. There's obviously a 'feel' when getting into a good position. 'On time' is where I wanna be. "The hay is in the barn" and all I mean from that is you've taken quality tee, front toss, machine, or live pitching swings. You've done constraints, worked on internal/external cues. When you're in the box it's time to hit. Your brain shouldn't be thinking about engine 1 or 5. You've done all the thinking at lessons or practice. My thoughts anyway.

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FiveFrameSwing said:

To me it isn't necessarily about being in a 'position' ... otherwise folks would simply start in 'that position' .... instead it is about gaining a 'feel' of being ready to use the torso and hands. I gain that 'feel' during my 'move out' and 'reading of the pitch'.

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Great point, and has been my issue for years concerning some theories. The swing needs to be dynamic and timed with the ball. The "position" has been called many things over the years; launch position, the truth, etc. If all that was necessary was to get into that position, then hitters should just start in that position and swing from there. I'd like to see how that would work against good pitching...

Jcuevas said:

We all know or should know that getting into a good position on time is the hardest part of hitting. That's why I'm a big fan of this topic. Everyone is different and we gotta understand how the brain works. When is my brain telling me to go after getting into that position? I've been around kids that have beautiful swings mechanically but had the hardest time with their timing. The hay was in the barn but when it was time to perform they choked. Why? Numbers looked good (EV,LA) off a tee, front toss, and live cage pitching. Brain? Trust in their "hay"? Great topic.

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I can’t say for sure what the issue would be if ‘everything’ checked all the boxes in practice etc. I would first check when the hitter was getting ‘started’. Early or late. ‘Timing’ on time so to speak. Next would probably be balance. Getting to a 50/50 on time. Of course timing again. If both of those checked, I would move to rhythm or tempo. Don’t want a rushed gather or move out. If the player still can’t square up a pitch consistently in game. I would send her to the eye doctor. Lol. Seriously though.

Work=wins said:

I can’t say for sure what the issue would be if ‘everything’ checked all the boxes in practice etc. I would first check when the hitter was getting ‘started’. Early or late. ‘Timing’ on time so to speak. Next would probably be balance. Getting to a 50/50 on time. Of course timing again. If both of those checked, I would move to rhythm or tempo. Don’t want a rushed gather or move out. If the player still can’t square up a pitch consistently in game. I would send her to the eye doctor. Lol. Seriously though.

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Perhaps this comes from dealing with a large number of hitters of varying skill levels .....

Since hitting is much more than getting into positions ... and more about how the body moves ..... it helps to have a good sense of body awareness.

The sad reality is that some folks gravitate to this sport simply because they, or their parents, don't perceive the sport to involve much in terms of athleticism. They don't quite appreciate the importance of the athletic skills involved and miss the need for a fairly strong sense of body awareness. The result is that some players enter the sport that simply struggle to move their body efficiently. I am not talking about a vision issue. You can have certain kids perform a dry swing and the result is ugly with horrible body movement.

One of the issues with working with young kids is that their sense of body awareness is not yet developed. Some kids grow up and never quite develop much of a sense of body awareness.

In one of the cages I worked at there was a sign that read "Build the Athlete First". Over the years I grew to better appreciate that notion.