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Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Absolutely do not teach to push the hands...Hands stay as the pivot ...never move forward from the arm pit is the goal

How far into the swing do you maintain this goal of the hands not moving forward of the arm pit? All the way into impact? If not ... then at what point in the swing?
 
Last edited:
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
If a mechanic is used by pros it is likely efficient. Swings of 12yo's should strive to be efficient as well.

Regarding this "snapping" that is being advocated .... please explain the concept of "snap". What is the movement taking place (is it supination of the rear forearm)? Where in the swing is the action of "snap" located?

I believe Teacherman/Richard ( I am not an expert on his teachings) teaches two snaps, both of which I disagree with. First snap is the hands snapping the barrel rearward (which is a mechanic employed by Barry Bonds and some others but by my unscientific estimation less than half of MLB players and even fewer high level fastpitch players). Most hitters that would try this would dump the barrel and never get on plane. And then the other snap is the rear hip snapping the torso "over the falls" which is worse than the first snap. It too is employed on occasion by some MLB players (not purposely- staying back and launching an off speed pitch). How many or what % of MLB players when practicing off a tee employ snap "over the falls". I believe the number would be quite low. I know rbass has posted a SNAP video which I found hilarious. Not only is it OK, it is correct to have your mass/weight/COM/belly button shift laterally in a controlled manner. On some (generally big/no stride)hitters the shift can be very slight but it is usually there. Of course it can be over done. If Barry Bonds shifted more instead of going over the falls he would have hit the ball further.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
I remembered it slightly different, this is what he said:

Hank
You don't swing a bat pushing forward from a dead stop. To swing forward fluidly, to get some muscle in your swing, you've got to have some kind of backward motion. But, and this is important, you should never have a backswing, because then you've got too far to recover.

In other words, keep that backward movement to a minimum. The least amount of hitch or backswing you have in your bat, the better the connection you're going to make with the ball. But if you start off with a decided hitch, the first thing you're going to be doing is start dropping you hands and backswinging, and you're just not going to be able to recuperate in time. So always concentrate on starting the bat forward.
.

Shawn ... for many young developing hitters, and even some fairly advanced hitters, there is a mentality of bringing the hands back to then bring them forward.

Others have a more sophisticated feel of flow. Their 'back action' is more of a continuous sense of flow ... their 'back action' is continuous/flowing ... and often intended to get the barrel moving/arcing/orbiting than to actually bring the hands forward. Their rear-arm is not brought back to be brought forward. Instead is more of a continuous looping action.

Take a look at the clip of Ortiz below. As I watch the head of the bat I see a nice smooth flow ... certainly not a motion of bringing the barrel rearward just to bring it forward.

2vmugj6.gif
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,588
113
Chehalis, Wa
Shawn ... for many young developing hitters, and even some fairly advanced hitters, there is a mentality of bringing the hands back to then bring them forward.

Others have a more sophisticated feel of flow. Their 'back action' is more of a continuous sense of flow ... their 'back action' is continuous/flowing ... and often intended to get the barrel moving/arcing/orbiting than to actually bring the hands forward. Their rear-arm is not brought back to be brought forward. Instead is more of a continuous looping action.

Take a look at the clip of Ortiz below. As I watch the head of the bat I see a nice smooth flow ... certainly not a motion of bringing the barrel rearward just to bring it forward.

2vmugj6.gif

Yeah I understand, Even when things appear to be moving back, everything is working forward. If you look at the barrel path, even as it works back, it is actually working forward.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
Shawn ... for many young developing hitters, and even some fairly advanced hitters, there is a mentality of bringing the hands back to then bring them forward.

Others have a more sophisticated feel of flow. Their 'back action' is more of a continuous sense of flow ... their 'back action' is continuous/flowing ... and often intended to get the barrel moving/arcing/orbiting than to actually bring the hands forward. Their rear-arm is not brought back to be brought forward. Instead is more of a continuous looping action.

Take a look at the clip of Ortiz below. As I watch the head of the bat I see a nice smooth flow ... certainly not a motion of bringing the barrel rearward just to bring it forward.

2vmugj6.gif

A resistance if you will. A resistance with the hands which helps separation , adjustability and creates turn the barrel, the rag wring , the missing frames . As many have stated on this forum not knowing , if turn the barrel is an action or a thought, the player will run into many problems . Turn the barrel should be a reaction. That's why pros don't talk about turn the barrel. I don't use the cue. It's what happens when the hands and body work right. Do you use the cue? Anyone? Good results with that? In what part of the swing do you use turn the barrel cues? Just my .02 .
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
A resistance if you will. A resistance with the hands which helps separation , adjustability and creates turn the barrel, the rag wring , the missing frames . As many have stated on this forum not knowing , if turn the barrel is an action or a thought, the player will run into many problems . Turn the barrel should be a reaction. That's why pros don't talk about turn the barrel. I don't use the cue. It's what happens when the hands and body work right. Do you use the cue? Anyone? Good results with that? In what part of the swing do you use turn the barrel cues? Just my .02 .

WorkWins ... I have hitters that come to me with various issues.

While pros don't seem to talk about turning the barrel, they certainly talk about their hands. What is it you think they are doing with their hands? They certainly talk about it a lot.

Some young hitters simply have "dead hands". See the young lady below as an example.

Hinge_Angle_Nonsense2_Dead_Hands.gif


Hinge_Angle_Nonsense1_Dead_Hands.gif


Granted, this young lady is not using her body appropriately either.

You appear to acknowledge that the barrel is turned/arc'd/orbited and suggest that it will happen "when the hands and body work right". The implication being that you believe that the 'hands' (possibly forearms) need to do something.

So what do you do when a hitter comes to you with "dead hands"? Do you simply tell them that their hands don't work right and that they need to play another sport? Not me ... I will promote using the 'body' and the 'hands' to 'work/orbit/arc/turn' the barrel. The concept of two-engines is not a bad concept. Can one over bake the hand/forearm engine? Sure. Can one under utilize the hand/forearm engine? Sure. Can one properly use the torso/hip-engine and forearm/hand-engine in a manner that leads to building solid hitters? Sure.
 
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
The young lady above has had some poor instruction before she came to you. I would have her do long tee and when she hits 25 line drives over 100 feet she will have figured out turning the barrel. She will be "reacting" correctly. Feedback is a great teacher.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
The young lady above has had some poor instruction before she came to you. I would have her do long tee and when she hits 25 line drives over 100 feet she will have figured out turning the barrel. She will be "reacting" correctly. Feedback is a great teacher.

Clarification ... the young lady is not a student of mine.

Simply asking someone to perform long tee will not iron out a swing. Many hitters have internal movement patterns that are prohibitive ... and they persist in these movement patterns even though they are prohibitive. I've seen people maintain poor movement patterns for several years ... i.e., their poor movement patterns don't simply go away as they continue to swing ... years and years of swings will not necessarily correct poor movement patterns.

A strategy of "they will eventually figure it out" doesn't work for many. The clock is ticking for many of these young hitters .... telling them that "it will eventually work itself out" is not the approach that works best IMO.
 

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