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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Are you saying that Bonds is doing the same as this:
harperrearleg_zps06405e52.gif

If this player had a logo on his upper arm like Bonds it would be moving counterclockwise just like Bond's logo is
moving clockwise (because he is a lefty). Not as much obviously but both externally rotating.
I think the main point here is that I think everyone can agree that Bond's actions are not the same as Harper's.
Angle isn't as good on Harper's clip but Harper seems to take his humerus straight up in a linear fashion
first with very little rotation.
 
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rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
Could this be more of a scap movement(action) than a arm movement(action) that I am seeing:
tumblr_opi35sAbZW1usf292o1_250.gif

tumblr_minifklWO91renuivo1_500.gif


I honestly see this as 'circling' the scap and not ER of the humerus.
Bonds_External_Rotation.gif
 
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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Could this be more of a scap movement(action) than a arm movement(action) that I am seeing:
tumblr_opi35sAbZW1usf292o1_250.gif

tumblr_minifklWO91renuivo1_500.gif


I honestly see this as 'circling' the scap and not ER of the humerus.
Bonds_External_Rotation.gif

On a hill, I can put a car in drive and hit the gas pedal to go forward or put it neutral and let it roll to go forward but in both cases it is going forward....
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Could this be more of a scap movement(action) than a arm movement(action) that I am seeing:
tumblr_opi35sAbZW1usf292o1_250.gif

tumblr_minifklWO91renuivo1_500.gif


I honestly see this as 'circling' the scap and not ER of the humerus.
Bonds_External_Rotation.gif

Rb ... place your bottom hand over your rear shoulder and mimic what you see here. The placement of the bottom hand over the rear shoulder will help you feel the rotation of the rear humerus within the shoulder socket.
 
Apr 11, 2015
877
63
I almost hate to wander into these watermelon seed spitting contests, but what I think "rb" is trying to say (or maybe seeing as the difference between whats happening with "ER" in Harper's swing vs Bonds'), it that when/where the ER takes place is different and defining in the two swings.

Harper "launches" with/using ER of the humerus in the clip in question, while Bonds is ERing to raise his hands to his "launch position", but doesn't have any humeral ER in his actual swing at or after his "launch" of the bat/barrel.

EDIT: OK, maybe "doesn't have any ER" is a poor choice of words, and is just setting myself up for picking of nits....so maybe "doesn't have any forced ER" is a better way to differentiate the two. In the Harper gif, he seems to force/use ER to get the barrel going "rearward" in his "launch", while Bonds' ER rotation of the humerus is simply reactionary (an effect) of the adduction of the humerus, the turning of his lower half, and him trying to keep his "hands back" during his "overlap" process/stage just prior to his actual "launch" of the bat/barrel. Hope that makes more sense or is clearer.
 
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rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
I almost hate to wander into these watermelon seed spitting contests, but what I think rb is trying to say (or maybe seeing as the difference between whats happening with "ER" in Harper's swing vs Bonds'), it that when/where the ER takes place is different and defining in the two swings.

Harper "launches" with/using ER of the humerus in the clip in question, while Bonds is ERing to raise his hands to his "launch position", but doesn't have any humeral ER in his actual swing at or after his "launch" of the bat/barrel.

Thank You.....Was the reasoning of posting the full gif of Bonds
tenor.gif

tumblr_palg1jI9zF1usf292o1_400.gif

tumblr_minifklWO91renuivo1_500.gif


EDIT: OK, maybe "doesn't have any ER" is a poor choice of words, and is just setting myself up for picking of nits....so maybe "doesn't have any forced ER" is a better way to differentiate the two. In the Harper gif, he seems to force/use ER to get the barrel going "rearward" in his "launch", while Bonds' ER rotation of the humerus is simply reactionary (an effect) of the adduction of the humerus, the turning of his lower half, and him trying to keep his "hands back" during his "overlap" process/stage just prior to his actual "launch" of the bat/barrel. Hope that makes more sense or is clearer.
 
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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
EDIT: OK, maybe "doesn't have any ER" is a poor choice of words, and is just setting myself up for picking of nits....so maybe "doesn't have any forced ER" is a better way to differentiate the two. In the Harper gif, he seems to force/use ER to get the barrel going "rearward" in his "launch", while Bonds' ER rotation of the humerus is simply reactionary (an effect) of the adduction of the humerus, the turning of his lower half, and him trying to keep his "hands back" during his "overlap" process/stage just prior to his actual "launch" of the bat/barrel. Hope that makes more sense or is clearer.

Basically cause and effect..that was the point of my car example. The fact of the matter is that from a purely geometric point of view Bonds does have ER of the humerus which is what was originally being argued I think. I also agree that with the picking of nits comment since if I start talking about ER of the humerus with my DD I might as well be talking her through the proof of the Poincare conjecture.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,591
113
Chehalis, Wa
I almost hate to wander into these watermelon seed spitting contests, but what I think "rb" is trying to say (or maybe seeing as the difference between whats happening with "ER" in Harper's swing vs Bonds'), it that when/where the ER takes place is different and defining in the two swings.

Harper "launches" with/using ER of the humerus in the clip in question, while Bonds is ERing to raise his hands to his "launch position", but doesn't have any humeral ER in his actual swing at or after his "launch" of the bat/barrel.

EDIT: OK, maybe "doesn't have any ER" is a poor choice of words, and is just setting myself up for picking of nits....so maybe "doesn't have any forced ER" is a better way to differentiate the two. In the Harper gif, he seems to force/use ER to get the barrel going "rearward" in his "launch", while Bonds' ER rotation of the humerus is simply reactionary (an effect) of the adduction of the humerus, the turning of his lower half, and him trying to keep his "hands back" during his "overlap" process/stage just prior to his actual "launch" of the bat/barrel. Hope that makes more sense or is clearer.

I can agree with that. That Bonds is getting to the launch position.

Edit: Harper is ER after achieving the launch position.
 
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Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
I almost hate to wander into these watermelon seed spitting contests, but what I think "rb" is trying to say (or maybe seeing as the difference between whats happening with "ER" in Harper's swing vs Bonds'), it that when/where the ER takes place is different and defining in the two swings.

Harper "launches" with/using ER of the humerus in the clip in question, while Bonds is ERing to raise his hands to his "launch position", but doesn't have any humeral ER in his actual swing at or after his "launch" of the bat/barrel.

EDIT: OK, maybe "doesn't have any ER" is a poor choice of words, and is just setting myself up for picking of nits....so maybe "doesn't have any forced ER" is a better way to differentiate the two. In the Harper gif, he seems to force/use ER to get the barrel going "rearward" in his "launch", while Bonds' ER rotation of the humerus is simply reactionary (an effect) of the adduction of the humerus, the turning of his lower half, and him trying to keep his "hands back" during his "overlap" process/stage just prior to his actual "launch" of the bat/barrel. Hope that makes more sense or is clearer.

I had hoped Rb would have had such a discussion ... but that wasn't my read of his posts ... More he seemed adamant that ER didn't exist ... and when the frames of ER were pointed out there seemed to be an attempt to redefine what ER was.
 
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rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
What Mud said:
Harper "launches" with/using ER of the humerus in the clip in question, while Bonds is ERing to raise his hands to his "launch position", but doesn't have any humeral ER in his actual swing at or after his "launch" of the bat/barrel.
tumblr_minifklWO91renuivo1_500.gif

and when the frames of ER were pointed out there seemed to be an attempt to redefine what ER was.
Not 'attempting to redefine ER'. That's the way I see/saw it.
I could 'fall' back on what hitter is using the most efficient way to swing and what should be taught.
 
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