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Thread: Stretch

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    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Default Stretch

    When do or even do you think stretching in the torso happens?
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Rdbass

    A long, long time ago before I even heard of x factor or anything similar. I was looking at what is stretched and thought that early hip/lower body rotation created stretch in the torso.

    Recently I heard this stretch explained in two different books and was wondering when/if stretch is created in the stride or in early rotation?
    Last edited by Shawn; 05-11-2018 at 06:38 PM.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    When do or even do you think stretching in the torso happens?
    Shawn, in the thread "Biggest lie?", there was a discussion about how the front shoulder is moved down and towards the rear hip. This is when the slack removal, baby stretch, takes place. This stretch is not simply the 'torsion spring' that Rdbass posts above. The stretch, or slack removal, is much more than what is shown in the 'torsion spring' GIF. Since you seem to understand this 'stretch', I hope you realize that it will result in having the 'core' virtually immediately work the barrel via transmission via the lead-arm.

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    I can talk softball all day Gags's Avatar
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    Would you say there's a physical difference in the stretch that's created during the stride or in early rotation?

    I interpret early rotation to be more of a static load, or maybe even a pre-load.
    I interpret "in the stride" to (generally) be the same as FBC (forward by coil).

    To answer my own question, there doesn’t appear to be a physical (physiological?) difference in the stretch – a stretched muscle (and fascia, per the other thread) is a stretched muscle. So I think the “what gets stretched” could be the same.

    Initially, my response was going to suggest that while the stretch is the same, WHEN it happens is what causes the different results – I think it’s safe to say that swings with FBC are generally more successful than swings with just an early rotation.

    However, I’m not so sure anymore that the “what gets stretched” ever is the same. In low-level hitters, early rotation is often no more than a torso twist, and maybe a weight shift onto the rear leg. Looking at some HL swings, the stretch / rotation is so minimal that I wonder if we’re over-emphasizing its importance (what’s the marketing phrase – a little dab will do ya’?), or not fully understanding its role in the overall swing sequence.

    Tying this back to my initial assumption, should stretch be viewed as something different than coil? Coil is supposed to happen around the rear hip (into the rear hip? Over the femur? Same difference?). But if we describe stretch as an “X” pattern (using the fascia terminology), and work to move our bodies accordingly, do we end up overlooking or minimizing the hip coil? Thinking of the stretch as more a “K” than an “X” pattern may help emphasize a rear hip/leg centered coil, rather than just a torso twist.

    All that being said – are stretch and coil supposed to be different? Do they serve different purposes? Should we (I?) be focusing on coil as the rear leg/hip driver, and stretch as something that helps set the hands and ensuing bat path?

    [Also self-enrolling on the internet “question mark abuser” registry]

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    Would you say there's a physical difference in the stretch that's created during the stride or in early rotation?
    That's what I wanted to discuss. One is creating stretch before the swing and one is built into the swing. From a teaching standpoint I don't think it matters. And I was just wondering what everyones thoughts on the subject were.

    Now , that said. I can see where one could create lots of "loading" and totally disrupt the rhythm/tempo of the swing.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Shawn, in the thread "Biggest lie?", there was a discussion about how the front shoulder is moved down and towards the rear hip. This is when the slack removal, baby stretch, takes place. This stretch is not simply the 'torsion spring' that Rdbass posts above. The stretch, or slack removal, is much more than what is shown in the 'torsion spring' GIF. Since you seem to understand this 'stretch', I hope you realize that it will result in having the 'core' virtually immediately work the barrel via transmission via the lead-arm.
    Let me read that thread and get back to you.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gags View Post
    Would you say there's a physical difference in the stretch that's created during the stride or in early rotation?

    I interpret early rotation to be more of a static load, or maybe even a pre-load.
    I interpret "in the stride" to (generally) be the same as FBC (forward by coil).

    To answer my own question, there doesn’t appear to be a physical (physiological?) difference in the stretch – a stretched muscle (and fascia, per the other thread) is a stretched muscle. So I think the “what gets stretched” could be the same.

    Initially, my response was going to suggest that while the stretch is the same, WHEN it happens is what causes the different results – I think it’s safe to say that swings with FBC are generally more successful than swings with just an early rotation.

    However, I’m not so sure anymore that the “what gets stretched” ever is the same. In low-level hitters, early rotation is often no more than a torso twist, and maybe a weight shift onto the rear leg. Looking at some HL swings, the stretch / rotation is so minimal that I wonder if we’re over-emphasizing its importance (what’s the marketing phrase – a little dab will do ya’?), or not fully understanding its role in the overall swing sequence.

    Tying this back to my initial assumption, should stretch be viewed as something different than coil? Coil is supposed to happen around the rear hip (into the rear hip? Over the femur? Same difference?). But if we describe stretch as an “X” pattern (using the fascia terminology), and work to move our bodies accordingly, do we end up overlooking or minimizing the hip coil? Thinking of the stretch as more a “K” than an “X” pattern may help emphasize a rear hip/leg centered coil, rather than just a torso twist.

    All that being said – are stretch and coil supposed to be different? Do they serve different purposes? Should we (I?) be focusing on coil as the rear leg/hip driver, and stretch as something that helps set the hands and ensuing bat path?

    [Also self-enrolling on the internet “question mark abuser” registry]
    Can be thought of as two different 'stretches' (a bit of a misnomer IMO).

    During the stride ... where often the lead shoulder is brought down and in towards the rear hip ... can be thought of as a 'baby-stretch' or simply a slack removal process.

    During what I believe you are referring to as 'early rotation' (.... and it is possible that I am misinterpreting you) ... there is the 'torso twist' (rotation) that you speak of and almost immediately after this there is an independent working/arcing/orbiting of the barrel (... second engine) which gives rise to a feel of a dynamically enriched 'stretch' felt in the core. The second rotation ... i.e., that of the barrel ... is 'stealing-from/connecting-to/being-pulled-by the first rotation (... main/first/core engine).

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    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    During the stride ... where often the lead shoulder is brought down and in towards the rear hip ... can be thought of as a 'baby-stretch' or simply a slack removal process.
    I can agree with that, being there is a stretch when the front shoulder turns in and slack is taken out of the torso/arms. In then twisting deeper stretch in the beginning of rotation.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    I can agree with that, being there is a stretch when the front shoulder turns in and slack is taken out of the torso/arms. In then twisting deeper stretch in the beginning of rotation.
    Correct ... in a sense, the slack is taken out of the core in a manner that will allow the lead-arm to be inspired to behave as a 'swinger'.

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  13. #10
    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Correct ... in a sense, the slack is taken out of the core in a manner that will allow the lead-arm to be inspired to behave as a 'swinger'.
    Myers talks about the slack being taken out in The Catapult Loading System. I think you would like his book.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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